21 replies to this topic

[thetrev.com]

Hi,

 

Thanks for all the info on brakes, I am building a car for HRCR events, road rallies and autotests, From reading lots of threads and builds, I have put together the following any thoughts or advice I am a little unsure on a couple of items

 

The car is currently having a 6 point SD cage welded in and Seat Rails, and the Seam welded.

 

Solid Mount lower subframe mounts

Poly Tower Mounts Or Solid aluminium leaning to Poly 

Teardrops Again unsure solid or not.

 

1.5° NEGATIVE CAMBER LOWER ARMS

TIE BAR RODS HEAVY DUTY ADJUSTABLE KIT

With Road/Rally bushes from MiniSpares

NEGATIVE CAMBER BRACKETS REAR FIXED

 

Mini Spares Genuine Hi Lo's

Gaz Lowered Adj shocks

Competition cones Front and rear

Mini spares competition rear subframe bush kit.

Mini Spare FAST ROAD LOWER ARM BUSH SET

 

Mini Sport Competition suspension mounts

Uprated Bottom Bolts

 

Brakes  based on the other topic I am set on 

 

7.5" Cooper S callipers

Mintex 1144 Pads

Solid Discs

Minifin's rear drums,

Servo assisted

 

 

Thanks

 

Trev

[A-Cell]

NOT lowered for rally. Standard length dampers and ride height raised a little.

[dprac1ng]

NOT lowered for rally. Standard length dampers and ride height raised a little.

 

Agreed. Some form of ground clearance is required when rallying!

[thetrev.com]

I had thought Std would be better but from reading a build thread of Rally1380 and advice he gave he had recommending using the lowered Gaz ones as the std one bottomed out.

 

Trev

[Allrounder]

As long as you not going into the forest then the front subframe should be solid mounted, don't mix poly with solid as the poly will still flex. Again I'd solid mount the rear subframe as I too fitted the competition minispares ones and they didn't last a year, ended up putting washers in to tighten them up.
You could try standard dampers with the higher damper mount to compensate for the lowering if that's what you want to do but don't forget a good sump guard. I use a plastic composite one,
Pop over if you want to have a look.
Liam

[rally1380]

The reason why i suggested lowered versions of the shock absorber to thetrev.com is I have had my standard ones bottom out and actually damaged the rear upped shock mount - peeled it away from the top of the arch.  I wasn't suggesting to lower the ride height, just that the shorter shock might reduce the risk of shocks bottoming out and therefore damaging them.

 

Now i am in no way saying the OP might have the same issues - he may not - but was just offering my first hand experience.

 

I would say this - HRCR events tend not to be mega rough.....and i will stress the word TEND here....after all some cars that take part are super rare and valuable. 

 

Some like the tour of cheshire are super smooth and i'm debating what tyre and suspension setup to actually run as my entry is in and accepted.

 

Other events like the Vale of Clwyd Classic are rough and last year saw us doing proper forestry mileage....it was rough enough to force (not unwind) the nut on the end of my tie bar off - ripping the tie bar out and pulling the driveshaft out to add to all the fun!!!!

 

The suggestion of the different top mounts for the front with the moved pin is a good one....but that will depend on what shockers you opt for.

 

Your chosen ground clearance will depend alot on the shock length....if you run your car standard height or closer to the ground (alot do) then definately go for shorter shocks. If like me you prefer to jack the car up a bit then you might get away with standard length shocks, but mine still bottomed out on rough stuff on night rallies.

 

 

EDIT:- Just a thought (an expensive one...sorry) but you might find that you will need 2 sets of shocks (standard height and lowered) anyway as differing types of events (autosolos, rallies, sprints etc etc) will require different suspension and wheel/tyre setups.

Edited by rally1380, 10 January 2015 - 01:51 PM.

[A-Cell]

When you build the suspension, do an installation check without the rubber cone to establish the total travel and check the closed and open dimensions of the dampers versus the total travel. That way you will avoid bottomig of the damper and damper fixing breakage.

[rally1380]

When you build the suspension, do an installation check without the rubber cone to establish the total travel and check the closed and open dimensions of the dampers versus the total travel. That way you will avoid bottomig of the damper and damper fixing breakage.

 

But you would have to have both sets of dampers to compare....seems an expensive experiment.

[Cooperman]

Set the ride height about 1.5 to 2 cm higher than standard and use standard dampers. That has always worked for me.

 

Don't use poly sub-frame mounts anywhere, not anywhere! For rallying the sub-frame MUST be solidly mounted all round with metal mounts.

 

Fit a good aluminium sumpguard full length.

 

With 7.5" Cooper 'S' brakes use the Carbon-Metallic pads as sold by Mini Spares. Mintex 1144 are not good enough for serious rallying. If you want to use Mintex pads use M1177 on 7.5" discs. Use AP600 competition brake fluid.

 

You don't need Mini-Fins on the back. Standard 'S' drums are fine as the rears do so little work.

 

Where the front tie bars go onto the sub-frame ears weld 4 mm steel triangular support plates to prevent the 'ears' bending back. Use standard rubber bushes at that location and change them often. Fit castellated nuts with split pins to the front of the tie-bars (photo available if you want one).

 

For maximum reliability fit twin standard road FACET petrol pumps piped in parallel with separate fuses, switches and filters.

[thetrev.com]

Cheers, for all the info defo going to change the mounts and take another look at the suspension choices

 

@COOPERMAN, I have used the Carbon-metallics before and they were very good on the circuit thought they may be a bit to much for rally use, if you can upload a photo of the tie-bars that would be good.

[Cooperman]

The Carbon-Metallic pads, from PAGID I think as sold by Mini Spares (simon@minispares can confirm maybe) are absolutely superb on road, track and rally tests. I've had mine red hot, literally, and they still had no fade. Then I've used them from cold and they are fine. In fact, having had the old Ferodo DS11 over many years in all sorts of competition, the C-M pads are just so much better. I've tried M1144 but for rallying I found them to fade too much.

 

Here is the photo of the tie-bar support plates, click on photo to enlarge. I've also put the photo of where to cut the rectangular hole in the rear seat back to permit easy access to the rear dampers to enable quick changes to be made.

I hope this helps. If you want the full spec of my historic rally 'S' PM me your personal email and I'll send it. It covers 4 pages.

[keefr22]

I hope this helps. If you want the full spec of my historic rally 'S' PM me your personal email and I'll send it. It covers 4 pages.

Would you mind if I also send you a PM for a copy please?

Thanks

Keith

[Allrounder]

Top idea about the access hole for the n/s damper mount cooperman.

[rally1380]

Personnally I disagree with Coopermans view on Mintex M1144 pads....3/4 of the way through my first set and already bought my second set ready for battle - they have never faded on me. 

 

Admittedly this wasn't a stage event, but I've done 2 120 miler road rallies, 2 historic road rallies of similar distance and hundreds of road miles and autotests on this set of pads - never faded even when hammering them.

 

Different driving styles I suppose....Cooperman clearly slows down more before the corners....ha ha      seriously though, it does depend on how hard you are on the car...maybe i just don't drive quick enough to worry the brakes that much.

[Tupers]

I've added gussets to the tie bar mountings on my front frame but they point backwards.