22 replies to this topic

[nicklouse]

“The MSA recently announced that as of 2016 it has voted to mandate the use of Frontal Head Restraints in Stage Rallying, Hill Climb and Sprint – with certain exceptions in each – from 2016 onward”

 

 

thoughts?

what is it going to mean for you?

me i guess new lid and a device.

[keefr22]

About £900 for my son & I to replace two almost new helmets (3 events old) & two HANS. Unless there's some sense left in the MSA & they let double drivers share a HANS. I think the latter may well be unlikely. Playskool are starting a hire scheme for the HANS devices though, so may go that route next season.

Much heated discussion about this on Uphill Racers & the British Rally Forum - & no doubt elsewhere!

Oh, & you don't need a HANS if you run in standard road going classes in hillclimbs /sprints, even if you fit a cage, comp seats & full harness belts. Logical? We're talking about the MSA here...!!

[mab01uk]

Some more basic info on these devices here for those (like me) who are not fully up to date on all this.

http://www.demon-twe...device-for-you/

 

My thoughts?......it is an additional expense but had they been mandatory in circuit racing back in 2001 my brother might have survived his Mini Miglia crash.

http://www.theminifo...bell-1961-2001/

Edited by mab01uk, 20 June 2015 - 08:24 AM.

[mini93]

I've never been a health and safety nut... far from it!! And I can appreciate some will worry about the money side of things, but for me its nothing but a good thing to make this mandatory. a fist full of cash is better than being sat in a chair for the rest of your lift.

[keefr22]

I've never been a health and safety nut... far from it!! And I can appreciate some will worry about the money side of things, but for me its nothing but a good thing to make this mandatory. a fist full of cash is better than being sat in a chair for the rest of your lift.

Where's the fistful of cash coming from? I could do with it to buy the new lids & HANS thingies we need...!!

[ace01]

This is a divisive subject.  On the one hand we want a sport that is safe.  But on the other there is a need for safety.  However if you take the risk away does it diminish the thrill?   

 

In comparison with other safety equipment that is required in hillclimbs and sprints this does seem a little logical. Competitors are more likely to have a high speed shunt than have the car catch fire.  Yet we are required to have fireproof overalls and gloves.  When was the last time a competitors car caught fire on the track?

 

However, as I compete in road going I am not going to be affected just yet.

[keefr22]

This is a divisive subject.  On the one hand we want a sport that is safe.  But on the other there is a need for safety.  However if you take the risk away does it diminish the thrill?   
 
In comparison with other safety equipment that is required in hillclimbs and sprints this does seem a little logical. Competitors are more likely to have a high speed shunt than have the car catch fire.  Yet we are required to have fireproof overalls and gloves.  When was the last time a competitors car caught fire on the track?
 
However, as I compete in road going I am not going to be affected just yet.

to be honest I don't think having to wear a FHR will reduce the thrill of competing in sprints/hillclimbs for me. I reckon if I wanted thrills of that type I'd take up motorcycle or superkart racing!

I do tend to agree about your point about the risk of fire though, especially when we have marshalls with extinguishers every few yards, unlike road rally crews who can still compete in t-shirt and jeans, and probably won't see a marshall with an extinguisher in the whole event!

Edited by keefr22, 20 June 2015 - 11:15 AM.

[The Elfman]

One other thing people are forgeting is the position of your seat belts in relation to your shoulders. For hans to work and be comfortable the shoulder fixings should be as close to level as possible, if not the hans will not only be very uncomfortable but could also brake your collar bone in a crash..I belive more instructions are on the Hans sites..

[nicklouse]

One other thing people are forgeting is the position of your seat belts in relation to your shoulders. For hans to work and be comfortable the shoulder fixings should be as close to level as possible, if not the hans will not only be very uncomfortable but could also brake your collar bone in a crash..I belive more instructions are on the Hans sites..

Ohhh so a belt bar would be good on your cage. Mmmmm better get some CDS tube ordered.

[mini93]

Thats an issue some people seem to over look anyway. Some very tall people stuggle getting seats which fit correctly. The shoulder pass throughs should be level or above the torso, if below can cause other types of injury, compression being one I believe... I'm not 100% sure but where I used to work, we used to deadl with racetech seats and saw some testing videos of their seats Vs other seats and poorly fitted seats... quite shocking

[nicklouse]

Fitting one might be more of a pain than I was thinking about. As my rear diagonals are an inverted V meeting a V in the roof.

Can't use the rear seat back as I have no strength in it. Arse.

[keefr22]

One other thing people are forgeting is the position of your seat belts in relation to your shoulders. For hans to work and be comfortable the shoulder fixings should be as close to level as possible, if not the hans will not only be very uncomfortable but could also brake your collar bone in a crash..I belive more instructions are on the Hans sites..

Except Stand 21's HANS instructions tell you to have the belts 10 - 20 degrees below a horizontal line, and if you mount them above the horizontal then it's incorrect. The Blue book says 10 degrees below or above the horizontal is preferred....!! The MSA's drawing for the preferred angle of the belts in the horizontal plane is also completely opposite & termed incorrect by Stand 21!! We spent a fair bit of effort setting up the belts just as the MSA 'prefer'...!! 

 

I also read somewhere that it's recommended that for HANS use your shoulder belts should be crossed, something I'd also been told years ago & had always done in my rally cars 'back in the day'. However when my son & I turned up for our first hillclimb with the belts crossed, the scrute wouldn't let us run until we uncrossed them....!!

 

I can see mass confusion reigning next year...  

[The Elfman]

I know someone who uses a Hans in Sports 2000 and he said before he put the straps level it was very uncomfortable as the straps pulled down on the hans when tightened..

I also had a scrutineer ask about my Willans Crossed Belts but as they came from the factory like that I asked if he would take responsiblity if I undid them and anything went wrong !  hence they stayed crossed..lol  And yes your right they do recomend crossed belts, please see below.. and an angle less then 20 degrees

http://english.schro...-2__2014-11.pdf

 

I am lucky as I am building the cage and chassis as we speak so I can place them where I want but I think a lot or saloon based cars might have problems.

Edited by The Elfman, 23 June 2015 - 08:07 PM.

[nicklouse]

I know someone who uses a Hans in Sports 2000 and he said before he put the straps level it was very uncomfortable as the straps pulled down on the hans when tightened..
I also had a scrutineer ask about my Willans Crossed Belts but as they came from the factory like that I asked if he would take responsiblity if I undid them and anything went wrong !  hence they stayed crosse..lol  And yes your right they do recomend crossed belts, please leeo below.. and an angle less then 20 degrees
http://english.schro...-2__2014-11.pdf
 
I am lucky as I am building the cage and chassis as we speak so I can place them where I want but I think a lot or saloon based cars might have problems.

Yes they do and don't. It depends.

Shoulder belts should be crossed when the anchor points are more than 500mm [20] behind the seatback.

As with most things it pays to keep reading. And I have not got further than that bit yet.

Cheers for the link some good reading. Now of to the shed to take some measurements.

Edited by nicklouse, 23 June 2015 - 04:50 PM.

[nicklouse]

Yep going to have to be a full width bar. But at what height I will have to wait till I get the seat back in. At least one of the cross bars will help locate the harness.



Now I wonder where my notching tool is?