28 replies to this topic

[spiguy]

I thought everybody rated the valvoline vr1 stuff? Moke - you had some issues with Valvoline products?

[Spider]

Yes, but I must add to be fair, it was a few years back, none the less, it turned me off the product forever.

[spiguy]

Hmm. Well, there might be nothing in it but seeing as the first time I have heard this noise was after a long fast run  - the first since putting the VR1 in, then I am going to change back to the halfords classic 20/50 - I have a full can sitting here anyway. At least that way I will feel a bit better!

[spiguy]

So, changed the oil and it's still there. Car has just been well warmed up on the drive. I can't hear it when just idling, but I can hear it as the engine dies when I switch it off - unless the clutch is in in which case no noise.

 

I got a little video of it - guide to video:

 

1. First switch off is with clutch out, you can hear it rattle as the engine dies (note there is a further clicking sound which is just my stepper motor indexing)

2. I then made an ar53 of starting the car  - let the key go too soon, which was 'good' as the rough start made the noise much clearer than I have ever heard it before!

3. Second switch off is with clutch depressed -  no rattle.

 

I would greatly appreciate your comments and if you think I should worry or see if it gets worse:

 

[Stevie W]

Hi,

 

Just to add to what everyone else has contributed, I had a very similar noise to yours on my series 3 Allegro (all aggro!!) when the idle speed was too low (yours is an SPi so idle speed should be ok) or when switching off the engine. As the engine stopped turning, I'd get a little rattle as you describe.

Mine was worse after a long run, but you couldn't hear it from cold.

With the clutch down, no noise, as I let the clutch up and the idler gear took the drive from the primary gear you could hear an initial "clatter" which settled down to a quieter rattle on tickover.

 

Eventually I took the engine/gearbox out, split the engine from the 'box and assembled the transfer casing onto the gearbox with a new gasket (dry) and measured the end float with the thrust washers that were fitted. I'm aware some gaskets can be slightly different in thickness. In this case, the end-float was too wide and the bearing in the transfer case looked a bit worn for some reason.  

 

I replaced the transfer case idler bearing, bought some new thrust washers to get the endfloat to the minimum spec, then reassembled it all. The rattle at tickover had then disappeared!! 

 

Whilst the above cured my rattle, I'm not saying you've got worn bearings or the wrong endfloat, but it would be something to consider checking if all other avenues have been explored!

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers, Steve.

[spiguy]

Thanks Stevie. Sounds by your description to be exactly my situation. There are no weird noises at all when driving, no other symptoms, and the rattle is very slight indeed as it idles, just exactly like you said though - audible on switch off and when you release the clutch in neutral. Your description is spot on, there is a chatter as it takes up the slack then just a very slight noise after that.

 

I am thinking that I will leave it for now, and see what happens. It may always have been there and I haven't noticed - in fairness I used to until very recently, start and stop the car with the clutch in (always did this) until I read a thread on here which said that was bad as it loaded up the crank bearings when there was no oil flow (well, on start up at least).

 

I think I will approach it like this - if it gets no worse, then fine. If it starts doing it even when the engine is cold, then I will know it is progressing and I should probably do something about it.

[Spider]

Just pull the engine out and sort it, your mind will never be at rest until you do, it's not what I'd call a big job at all.

[spiguy]

Just pull the engine out and sort it, your mind will never be at rest until you do, it's not what I'd call a big job at all.

Damn. I was hoping for another of your "turn the radio up" suggestions

It's engine out, clutch / flywheel / transfer casing off right?

Edited by spiguy, 18 July 2015 - 06:43 PM.

[Stevie W]

Hi,

 

As Spider Moke says it's best to haul out the engine/box and do what I did on my Allegro! 

If this noise is the idler gear/bearings, it's not going to go away on it's own.

Someone posted a photo on here a few days ago or so showing what happens to the idler gear should the bearing(s) fail.....and it wasn't pretty!

Whilst I don't want to alarm you, it's best to catch it now before the noise gets worse/louder. It might not, but the problem is once the noise becomes excessive, the damage has been done and this could mean in the worst case,  a new transfer gear housing, gearbox and idler gear, which means pulling the engine out anyway. If all is ok now, all it's going to cost you is some time, new thrust washers and gasket set!! 

 

Cheers, Steve.

[sledgehammer]

the annoying bit is the bearing / gear can be got at with the engine in place

 

you just can't check the clearance - unless someone knows a trick - I can't think of a way to check ?

 

had an auto idler saw it's way thru to the torque converter

 

got me home - but the noise & oil leak were terrible 

Edited by sledgehammer, 18 July 2015 - 09:27 PM.

[Spider]

As Hammerman says, it can be done engine in. You can pull the Primary Gear (and the Seal wIth it) and you can - just - get a feeler gauge in there, but what a cow of a way to do it!  It's much easier and quicker to pull the engine out.

 

Also, as Steve has said, best done before it gets serious, At this stage, you're likely up for a gasket, some bearings and thrusts. If let go, you could easily end up looking for a gearbox case, tranfser housing, idler and primary gears.

 

And while you're doing the job, turn up the Radio

Edited by Moke Spider, 19 July 2015 - 03:41 AM.

[Dusky]

Help me remember to post a pic of the engine I rebuilt, this had an idler bearing chatter,not something Nice

[spiguy]

Thanks guys. So have you guys watched the video then and agree with my diagnosis?

[Dusky]

Here is the pic of one of the bearings after the idler bearing flew out and got 'muslhed' ( if that is a word?) by the gearbox spinning.

 

 

 

( didn't happen to me, but I bought this engine to find what happened)