19 replies to this topic

[newenglandmini]

I'm going to set my static ignition timing using the "light bulb" method.  I've done this with standard breaker point ignition.  Is the method the same when using a modern "contactless" distributor?

 

 distributor.jpg   44.64K   2 downloads

[dklawson]

If you have a Pertronix Ignitor ignition, yes.  That would also be true for PowerSpark and AccuSpark modules. 

 

Just to confirm... your test lamp will be wired between coil (-) and ground.  With the ignition on you will start with the distributor rotated counterclockwise so the test lamp is off.  Then SLOWLY turn the distributor body clockwise until the light just turns on.  Stop there and tighten the clamp screws.

[newenglandmini]

Doug, this is going to sound ignorant, but I had assumed that I simply needed to purchase the contactless distributor (minispares GEU930MS) and install it with the balance of the system being stock.  Do I need to add an additional component, and if so, what is it?

 

I found this on minispares site...is this what I need, and if so, how do I wire it?

 

http://www.minispare...lassic/IGNItion module.aspx|Back to search

Edited by newenglandmini, 15 November 2015 - 12:43 AM.

[dklawson]

Corey, if you bought GEU930MS, the description says it is a complete 25D style distributor with an "Ignitor" type electronic ignition module installed.  If you have a "standard" 3 Ohm coil and non-ballast wiring, you simply install it and connect the red wire to coil (+), the black wire to coil (-).  You can set the static timing as I described above.  If you have any questions about what is already in your car's wiring (ballast vs non-ballast) post back with a list of the wires (and their colors) that you need to attach to the coil.

 

The second item you linked to is a factory-type electronic ignition module.  To use it you have to have a much later, different style distributor.  If you are installing the distributor from the first link, you do not need the module from the second link.

[newenglandmini]

Thanks Doug.

 

I have indeed already purchased distributor GEU930MS, so I stumbled upon the correct arrangement.  I have also purchased coil GCL216 and I plan to purchase loom SL1331.  Minispares website indicates that the coil and loom are standard for my 1974 car.  They state that the coil is for a non-ballast configuration, so I assume that the loom is likewise a non-ballast configuration.  Can you confirm that the loom is non-ballast?

[dklawson]

Corey,

 

I cannot find the loom part number you listed.  I assume you meant 5L1331.  The 5L1331 says it is for use for cars going back to 1969 so I assume that would have wiring for a standard (non-ballast) coil.  The coil you posted the link to will be fine.  I am not trying to drive business away from Mini Spares but if you are not already building an order to justify shipping, virtually any locally available 3 Ohm coil would work equally as well.

[newenglandmini]

Doug, yes, it is 5L1331.  5's look like S's when I don't wear my reading glasses!

Thanks for all the assistance.

[newenglandmini]

Doug, I connected everything as noted above to accomplish static timing.  The wiring harness is not installed, so I used test leads to make the connections.  When I did so, the test light illuminates regardless of distributor position.  To summarize:

 

• Distributor black wire to coil (-)
• Distributor red wire to coil (+)
• Coil (+) to battery
• Test lamp between coil (-) and ground

 

What do I need to do differently?

[dklawson]

Hi Corey,

 

Your wiring is correct.  Though rare, you could have an ignition module that doesn't work.  However, make sure no other wires (none, not even a tachometer wire) are on coil (-).

 

I have assumed your ignition module was the original Pertronix Ignitor which can be static timed.  If the module is the newer Ignitor-2, it cannot be static timed.  The test is to pull the distributor from the block and connect it to the engine using another test lead.  With power to coil (+), rapidly spin the distributor shaft by hand to see if you can make the test light switch on and off.  If spinning the distributor shaft rapidly allows the test light to flash but turning it slowly does not, then the module is the later type and cannot be static timed.

[Vipernoir]

If you connect one side of the test lamp to the -ve terminal of the coil and the other to earth as written above, it will always be on as you're getting power from the coil and then earthing it...

 

Try again with the test lamp connected between the -ve terminal of he coil and the distributor wire.

[dklawson]

Viper, your connections are valid and will work, however, the wiring Corey has will also work.  Your arrangement works by passing current through the series mounted test lamp.  Corey, if you want to try the test lamp as Viper suggested, the lamp will be "on" anytime the module is conducting and "off" anytime the current flow stops.  With Viper's wiring, you will turn the dizzy housing counterclockwise until the light is solid on.  Then turn it SLOWLY clockwise until the light just turns "off" indicating the time at which the coil will fire.

 

The wiring I suggested (and Corey has) for the test lamp will also work but in that scenario the test lamp is wired parallel, not in series.  The voltage on coil (-) changes between 0V and 12V as the module switches on and off.  If it didn't then modern tachs (and Smiths RVC tachs) would not work.   When the module conducts (points closed) the path to earth through the module is "easier" than going through the test lamp so a bulb wired between coil (-) and earth turns "off".  When the module is not conducting (points open) then the only path to earth is through the test lamp and the bulb turns on.

 

Again, both wiring schemes for a static timing test lamp will work.  One is series wiring, the other parallel.  You can choose either, just be aware that the difference is when the test lamp will be "on".

[newenglandmini]

Doug, I'm a bit confused, so here are some more details (and a clarification to my original observations):

 

My distributor is a minispares GEU930MS. 

 

No other wires are connected, nor are the spark plug cables installed.

 

The test lamp stays on when turning the distributor in the engine, except as follows:  it turns off for about 1/2 second and then on again at one point.  When I stop rotating the distributor at that point, it does likewise;  off for 1/2 second and then on again.  It only does this when I turn the distributor CCW, not when I turn it CW.

[dklawson]

The picture on the MS web site shows what appears to be an original Ignitor module.  It should behave as I mentioned above.

 

The black ring below the rotor on the distributor shaft should have 4 magnets in it.  As the distributor shaft spins the magnets are passed in front of a Hall Effect sensor encased in the black module with the wires.  Make sure the magnet ring is in place, fully down, and that the gap between the black module and the magnet ring is minimal.  

 

If you pull the distributor from the block and connect it to the block with a jumper wire you will be able to spin the dizzy shaft by hand as I mentioned earlier.  If you can turn the dizzy slowly and the light cycles on and off, the module is working correctly.  

 

Again, I don't see any problems with your wiring.  You can always try the series test lamp wiring that Viper suggested.  Just remember that with Viper's series lamp wiring the light will turn "off" when you rotate the dizzy clockwise to find the firing point.

[newenglandmini]

Doug, I spun the distributor by hand.  With the parallel test lamp connection, it behaves as before - the lamp illuminates initially and stays lit except at the four apparent firing points, where it turns off for 1/2 second and then re-illuminates regardless of motion or lack thereof of the distributor.  On closer examination, it appears to turn off when the rotor is pointing at each of the spark plug lead contacts in the distributor cap.  It's not the same test lamp behavior that you described, but it does seem that the test lamp is correctly indicating firing points.  Do you agree?

 

I tried Viper's series wiring, and the reverse test lamp behavior occurs, i.e, the lamp is normally off, and illuminates briefly at the firing points.

 

 

Here's a picture of my test rig.

 

 PICT0024.JPG   88.4K   12 downloads

Edited by newenglandmini, 22 December 2015 - 08:50 PM.

[dklawson]

I wrote a lengthy reply and deleted it after looking at your picture for the second or third time.

 

The on/off behavior you are experiencing is not right.  The point at which you are noticing the change in the lamp is correct (when the rotor is pointing at a dizzy cap terminal).

 

I cannot see in your picture where the wires are connected to the battery or battery charger that you are using as a power supply.  I see the test lamp which appears to be in series between a battery terminal and the coil (-) terminal.  Is that correct?  What I do NOT see is the ground cable between battery (-) and the engine block.  Where is that wire?  The engine block must have a ground connection to the battery (distributor body).