21 replies to this topic

[Bazmatronic]

My '75 Mk3 998 has a timing notch on the bottom pulley, but doesn't have the 'teeth' to tell how retarded or advanced the timing is.  The car is standard apart from a MiniSpares stage 1 kit (carb needle, inlet & exhaust manifolds, RC40 exhaust system, K&N filter for the standard air box).

 

I can set the timing ok statically (it is currently set to 4 degrees BTDC), but is there a way to check it using a timing light, without having to find and fit a set of 'teeth'?  I don't have a rev counter to establish a particular RPM but my timing light can be set to different RPM rates.  Following the fitting of the stage 1 kit, I've been advised by MiniSpares to set the timing as follows:

 

"You should set your timing to 5 degrees BTDC with vac disconnected at 1000rpm."

 

Cheers in advance (ho ho)

 

Baz

 

[dklawson]

You said you set the static timing to 4 BTDC.  How did you do that without marks?

 

If I understand you correctly, your timing light has a built in tach?  Is that correct?  Does it also have an advance dial or similar?  If you don't fully understand what I am asking, can you post a picture of your timing light's controls and/or find a picture on the web of your light that you can post a link to?

[nicklouse]

If I read this correctly you don't have timing marks on your timing chain cover.

Do you have the an opening on the flywheel cover?

[Bazmatronic]

You said you set the static timing to 4 BTDC.  How did you do that without marks?
 
If I understand you correctly, your timing light has a built in tach?  Is that correct?  Does it also have an advance dial or similar?  If you don't fully understand what I am asking, can you post a picture of your timing light's controls and/or find a picture on the web of your light that you can post a link to?

I set the static timing at 4 degrees by cranking the engine to TDC on #1 cylinder so that both valves were closed, then using the flywheel timing marks I found the 4 degrees mark and cranked to align it with the pointer. I then loosened and turned the dizzy to get the points just opening, and checked that the #1 HT lead connector on the dizzy cap was 'facing' spark plug #1.

My timing light just has a dial that allows you to set an RPM, there's no other controls/displays apart from a LED that constantly lights when the selected RPM is achieved - pretty sure this is my timing light: http://m.ebay.co.uk/...6.c100408.m2460

Edited by Bazmatronic, 21 April 2016 - 10:17 PM.

[Bazmatronic]

If I read this correctly you don't have timing marks on your timing chain cover.
Do you have the an opening on the flywheel cover?

Yes that's right - no visible timing marks/teeth on the timing cover. I do have a small cover on the bell housing, that I've removed in order to see the flywheel timing marks, which I've then used to set my static timing.

[Leonrjohnson]

You can set a mirror over the bellhousing opening with the cover out of the way, and with the engine running and using the timing light you can see the timing marks on the flywheel.

[dklawson]

I have never seen that type of tach on a timing light. 

 

What I suggest you do is turn the crank until your zero timing marks on the flywheel line up.  Then take a piece of heavy coat hanger wire or similar and form a pointer.  Make the form of "T" that can be secured under two of the timing chain cover bolts with the leg of the T sharpened and pointing towards the zero degree mark on the pulley.

 

Once you have the zero pointer it is time to make additional timing marks on the pulley.  I suggest you get a cloth, dressmaker's measuring tape and wrap it around the front pulley.  Make several measurements and average them.  Determine what other timing marks you want and do some math.  Let's say you want a 5 BTDC mark.  Take your tape measure measurement and multiply it by 5 then divide by 360.  That will give you a linear distance.  Put the tape back on the front pulley and measure the distance you calculated BEFORE the zero timing mark.  Make a small center punch mark at that point.  Repeat this for other timing marks you may want.  I suggest 5, 10, and 32 BTDC.

[Bazmatronic]

Just out of interest, do any of you guys have the old A-series timing covers that seem to have timing marks underneath the bottom pulley? I've included a link below to a pic so that you can see what I mean - in the pic there's the old cover on the left and the later cover on the right - the later cover seems to have two sets of timing marks, underneath and in front of the bottom pulley.

 

If you have got the older cover with the marks under the pulley, how on earth are you meant to use them with a timing light??  My car has the older cover

 

https://dl.dropboxus...ming_covers.jpg

[Bazmatronic]

I have never seen that type of tach on a timing light. 

 

What I suggest you do is turn the crank until your zero timing marks on the flywheel line up.  Then take a piece of heavy coat hanger wire or similar and form a pointer.  Make the form of "T" that can be secured under two of the timing chain cover bolts with the leg of the T sharpened and pointing towards the zero degree mark on the pulley.

 

Once you have the zero pointer it is time to make additional timing marks on the pulley.  I suggest you get a cloth, dressmaker's measuring tape and wrap it around the front pulley.  Make several measurements and average them.  Determine what other timing marks you want and do some math.  Let's say you want a 5 BTDC mark.  Take your tape measure measurement and multiply it by 5 then divide by 360.  That will give you a linear distance.  Put the tape back on the front pulley and measure the distance you calculated BEFORE the zero timing mark.  Make a small center punch mark at that point.  Repeat this for other timing marks you may want.  I suggest 5, 10, and 32 BTDC.

 

 

Thanks for the advice, Doug.  Can I just confirm that when you say "make several measurements and average them", what you mean is measure the circumference of the pulley and divide the measurement by 360 to establish the 'length' of 1 degree of crank movement?

Edited by Bazmatronic, 22 April 2016 - 07:41 AM.

[gazza82]

Just out of interest, do any of you guys have the old A-series timing covers that seem to have timing marks underneath the bottom pulley? I've included a link below to a pic so that you can see what I mean - in the pic there's the old cover on the left and the later cover on the right - the later cover seems to have two sets of timing marks, underneath and in front of the bottom pulley.

 

If you have got the older cover with the marks under the pulley, how on earth are you meant to use them with a timing light??  My car has the older cover

 

https://dl.dropboxus...ming_covers.jpg

 

From underneath ..

[dklawson]

Thanks for the advice, Doug.  Can I just confirm that when you say "make several measurements and average them", what you mean is measure the circumference of the pulley and divide the measurement by 360 to establish the 'length' of 1 degree of crank movement?

 

 

All I was getting at was to make several circumference measurements to be sure you achieve higher accuracy.  When you make these punch marks you only get one chance so you need confidence in the numbers.  Yes, the math I was suggesting was the equivalent of calculating the linear distance for each degree of crank rotation.

 

 

 

Just out of interest, do any of you guys have the old A-series timing covers that seem to have timing marks underneath the bottom pulley? 

 

I have never heard of anyone using one of those on a Mini.  I thought they were exclusive to the inline applications like the Frog Eye Sprite.  There is a guy over here who markets a timing tape kit specifically aimed at those bottom timing mark covers.  With his kit you get a bolt-on timing pointer and a Mylar tape with timing marks on it.  You get the engine to TDC for cylinder 1, mount the pointer, clean the front pulley, and install the timing tape on the circumference of the pulley so its zero mark lines up with the new pointer.  

[Leonrjohnson]

There are perfectly good and usable timing marks on the flywheel , accessible via the removable cover and a mirror.Far easier to use as there isn't any parallax.

[skoughi]

I've got a verto clutch on my A series with the A series timing cover, no timing marks on anything! I set no1 at tdc, made a wee pointer attached to the timing cover then made a wee notch on the pulley when everything lined up. We'll be sourcing a timing light that we can dial in the amount of advance we want for when we get her going, however I have electronic points fitted to my dizzy so how can I set static timing with this set up? Sorry to hi-jack your thread!

[dklawson]

however I have electronic points fitted to my dizzy so how can I set static timing with this set up? Sorry to hi-jack your thread!

 

If you have one of the more common electronic ignitions that uses a Hall Effect sensor in the module, these can still be static timed.  In your case, guess at a timing position.  Turn the crank until the pointer is perhaps 8 to 10mm before your timing mark.  (by the way, never back up to get the timing positioned where you want.  Always turn the engine in the normal direction of rotation to take out all the timing chain play and component wear).  Once the pointer and pulley are where you want them, connect a test lamp between coil (-) and earth.  Turn the ignition switch to the run (not start) position so the coil is powered.  Loosen the dizzy clamp and turn the dizzy housing COUNTERCLOCKWISE so the test lamp turns OFF and the rotor is pointed to the plug #1 terminal on the dizzy cap.  Keep turning the dizzy housing counterclockwise an additional 10 or so degrees.  Now SLOWLY turn the dizzy housing CLOCKWISE until the test lamp just flickers ON.  Stop turning and lock the distributor down.  Your static timing will now be set a bit before TDC.  Start the engine, bring it to temperature, and set your dynamic timing.

[skoughi]

Thank you very much Sir! We'll give this a go and see how we get on.