138 replies to this topic

[Decayingdoll]

Thanks for your posts.

Beryl is my third mini. I bought my other two from eBay for a fraction of what I paid Beryl. I always had those inspected.

This time, I bought from a well known, reputable classic mini dealer.

When you go to a Michelin star restaurant you don't take a food critic with you just to be sure. I trusted the advert and I trusted the owner of the garage and I paid a high price.

I only discovered the problem with her underneath when she started having brake issues and I took her to a garage. If that hadn't happened is still be none the wiser.

I'm having the work inspected (recently done by said garage) next week to ensure he's done a proper job. I guess I'll go from there regarding the front floor and sills.

[Mrpeanut]

Thanks for your posts.

Beryl is my third mini. I bought my other two from eBay for a fraction of what I paid Beryl. I always had those inspected.

This time, I bought from a well known, reputable classic mini dealer.

When you go to a Michelin star restaurant you don't take a food critic with you just to be sure. I trusted the advert and I trusted the owner of the garage and I paid a high price.

I only discovered the problem with her underneath when she started having brake issues and I took her to a garage. If that hadn't happened is still be none the wiser.

I'm having the work inspected (recently done by said garage) next week to ensure he's done a proper job. I guess I'll go from there regarding the front floor and sills.

I get the restaurant analogy but you don't spend 7k on dinner which in any event isn't old and at least second hand. A house comparison is more apt. If you buy a new house you expect it to be spot on. If you buy an early Victorian cottage you should expect issues even if it's highly priced and is described as lovely which superficially it may be. Unless you're a builder you'd be wise to have that cottage surveyed. Ditto an old mini costing top dollar unless you know what to look for yourself.

[Broomer]

Thanks for your posts.
Beryl is my third mini. I bought my other two from eBay for a fraction of what I paid Beryl. I always had those inspected.
This time, I bought from a well known, reputable classic mini dealer.
When you go to a Michelin star restaurant you don't take a food critic with you just to be sure. I trusted the advert and I trusted the owner of the garage and I paid a high price.
I only discovered the problem with her underneath when she started having brake issues and I took her to a garage. If that hadn't happened is still be none the wiser.
I'm having the work inspected (recently done by said garage) next week to ensure he's done a proper job. I guess I'll go from there regarding the front floor and sills.

I get the restaurant analogy but you don't spend 7k on dinner which in any event isn't old and at least second hand. A house comparison is more apt. If you buy a new house you expect it to be spot on. If you buy an early Victorian cottage you should expect issues even if it's highly priced and is described as lovely which superficially it may be. Unless you're a builder you'd be wise to have that cottage surveyed. Ditto an old mini costing top dollar unless you know what to look for yourself.

Mr peanut, I just bought a second hand car from a dealer, I bought it through the used approved network as I want many trouble free miles and paid top money for this. I see this as no different to the mini in question, both second hand,both from specialists and both top dollar.

If mine falls apart in 7 months time and the floor is shagged along with important suspension components you would feel that is acceptable ?

What sets a mini specialist apart from bobs autos down the road is that you are placing your trust in them to survey and inspect the car prior to sale, not have the effort and inconvenience of doing it your self, hence the price premium like I said earlier in the thread, otherwise what is a specialist?

Edited by Broomer, 07 May 2016 - 12:57 PM.

[Cooperman]

The only question is 'what is it reasonable to expect from a classic car bought at top price for the model in question from a dealer who claims to be an expert'?

 

Should it be expected to be in top condition after purchase for a day, a week, a month or a year? A reasonable person might expect it to remain in good condition and to require no structural or mechanical work for 12 months. There must be some historical cases on this and Trading Standards should be able to advise.

 

If the trader's attitude is 'buyer beware', then he should not be claiming to be an expert or a specialist. He should say that he doesn't give any warranty, although that would probably be illegal unless sold as 'spares or repair', or define his warranty in writing. If there is no written warranty then personally I would go for 12 months parts & labour for any and all faults during that time.

 

If you have to pay to get the work done, make sure you have a pre-work quotation defining the work needed. Then pay his bill in order to retrieve the car and immediately claim it back by sending him a letter detailing the costs (as per his invoice). If he refuses to pay simply go to the small claims court. Make it clear when paying that you are not happy about it and will be taking further advice. Don't worry about seeming to be like a Mrs. Nasty. You are being very reasonable.

 

You should be the winner with this, so keep your chin up  .

[Shifty]

The issue with this claim is going to be the length of time, 7 months is quite a long time, even the MOT won't cover corrosion after 21 days.  Yes a £7k car should be perfect but it in this case it wasn't.  

 

The problem will come in proving that the vendor knew or tried to hide it.  7 months ago it could have been on the cusp of needing work and not easily spotted.

 

Yes you can go down the legal route and sue, claim etc, that could go either way, it would also spoil the posters enjoyment of the car as well.

 

I'd go with working with the vendor to get a reasonable solution.

[THE ANORAK]

unfortunately this is another case to back up my theory that you just cant trust anyone these days.

 

my recent buy has a lot of things that need sorting, i knew this when i bought it. i have also found a few other things since buying it, things that have not been done to my standard. what i did get is 12 months MOT and a car that im happy is safe and i can sort out... but then i paid less than half what decayingdoll paid.

 

when i bought it (from a car dealer, but not a mini specialist) i took what they said with a pinch of salt and made up my own mind about the car. but then i like to think i know what too look for.

 

the lesson to learn here is don't trust these people. unless you have previous good experience with them, make sure you study the car. if you don't have the knowledge then ask someone who does.

 

if decayingdoll has found a solution that suits then i think it should be respected. sometimes people just want things sorted with as little fuss as possible. BUT... as you have already learnt... don't trust them. make sure someone who knows what they are looking at inspects the work before you take the car back.

[racingbob]

moral of the story get the car inspected i wouldnt trust any car dealer

 

including a  mini specialist particulary handing over 7000 

 

aa or rac inspection. fancy them selling you a car for that money 

 

with a dubious rear subframe like that one quick look and it would have been walk away

[CityEPete]

You could argue until the cows come home that the floors were on the brink but you don't need to be an expert to know that the rear subframe was utterly junk before the car was put on the forecourt, those patches would have been obvious even if they had a clean coat of underseal on them a year ago.

[Decayingdoll]

Thanks all.
I've definitely learnt my lesson, though I'm still not convinced that I'm at fault for not inspecting the car before buying her...

Anyway. I gave her a good wash yesterday and there is white overspray on the side rear panels where they sprayed the undersill. This annoys me, should they not have covered her up to avoid this?! Will cutting compound remove this easily?

She's sitting quite high at the minute too. The garage said it was something to do with new rubber and it would lower to normal over time. Drives lovely as always and I feel so much safer knowing it has a new subframe.

Once the work has been inspected I'll call the garage again and ask about the front floor panel and new sills.

I'm so pleased they've taken responsibility for the subframe and rear. But like most others, I feel I shouldn't have the pay for the rest required to get her through the next MOT in October.

Thanks again for all your help. Once I'm feeling less pants about all this I'll post a photo of Beryl and I :)

Edited by Decayingdoll, 08 May 2016 - 08:46 AM.

[Carlos W]

 should they not have covered her up to avoid this?! 

 

Yes, it's careless and lazy.

 

I'm glad you're feeling a bit more positive about Beryl.

[Ethel]

Take it back (I know, again) better that they risk damaging the paint than you.

 

Shifty has a point, and you can have some sympathy with the seller, but he made a statement about the car's condition that you are entitled to rely on. His business model should cover the cost of ensuring his stock is as described, or allowing big enough overheads to honour his word if it falls short sometimes.

 

Beryl is the real culprit for rusting, but he's supposed to have the trade expertise that you paid a premium for to avoid being caught out by Mini delinquency. 

[dyshipfakta]

If your careful a product like megiars scratch x should remove your overspray. You might have to work at it but I like it as it's nice and easy to use by hand and the risk of doing any actual damage is nil. Nice clean cloth plenty of it and work it until your bored.

[sonikk4]

If and it's a big IF new doughnuts have been fitted then yes the suspension will settle over time. Is there any form of receipt to back this up?? Is it on the rear of the car??

If there is no receipt and they are not new and it's on the replacement rear subframe then it's possible the trumpet knuckles are not seated correctly. Quite easy to sort out if it is.

[midridge2]

The underseal will wipe of with some petrol or paraffin or white spirits very easily.

[Decayingdoll]

No invoice or receipt given. He wasn't even there when I collected her, he left the keys hidden so I could get her myself as he was busy.

I'll take a photo and upload to photo bucket. It is the rear where it's higher.