13 replies to this topic

[ClassicAsh]

HI all, the Mini in question is a Cooper SPI 1995 model, I am at the stage of putting the car back together however I am having some problems with trying to get it started,  it did run fine before I started the work but now its confusing my small brain ! right lets start at the beginning,  The car ran and started fine before the restoration buts its had a full strip down and everything was taken out, however I did label everything up.

 

It is fitted with the standard immobiliser part number YMC 1028 3AS this was behind the dash, it also has a Cobra model AT 2130  box fitted behind the dash, which I assumed was an after market immobiliser or a bypass box.The immobiliser was plugged in in the normal way, but the cobra box was wired in to the loom going from the ignition switch with two wires, and then the red and white wire from the ignition was disconnected and instead a wire was run from the back of the ignition switch connected to the red and white wire but then off direct to the starter motor solenoid terminal. hence I assume a bypass. when I connect the boxes as described above, and turn the key I can hear the fuel pump and noises from under the bonnet like the injection system etc. but other than that its dead when I turn the key.

 

if I swap the boxes around and plug in the cobra one direct into the original Immobiliser box the car turns over on the starter motor but this is without the key even being in the ignition. I am bloody confused, so does anyone have any ideas... as I am running out of them now, I am good with mechanical stuff, I can weld, I can build engines, I can paint spray but car electrics confuses the sticky brown stuff out of me...... any help or suggestions would be happily received... Thanks in advance.

[FlyingScot]

Don't swap them around - you might damage something.....

Start with the basics, do you have a keyfob for the 3AS and did it work correctly before ? That is did you have to press the button to unset and set the immobiliser?

Does it have the red led telltale on the dash?

Sounds like when you connect it up the way you labelling it, it's working but the immobiliser is set preventing starting.

Moved to injection section

FS

Edited by FlyingScot, 16 May 2016 - 01:24 PM.

[ClassicAsh]

Hi F.S thanks for the reply

 

I never had they key fob for the car just one key, that's why I assumed the cobra box was a bypass and the wire going direct to the starter made me think that too it did start on the key fine before. The dash is not installed yet, just everything connected so I can see that things work, the only light that is illuminated is the one on the cobra box. I have a feeling I am going to struggle with this one ! oh the fun of cars !

[FlyingScot]

okay we have to assume that the 3AS doesn't carry out its normal function.
Not sure how you activated the cobra unit before - did it work?

It's not a complicated system but I am not going to post more on a public forum. Sufficient to say most immobilisers inc the 3AS inhibit the starter relay in the MFU (black relay box on the servo). Your cobra is probably doing that too.

FS

Edited by FlyingScot, 16 May 2016 - 01:36 PM.

[ClassicAsh]

As the cobra unit was behind the dash and wired into the back of the ignition loom I think it somehow worked form there, I didn't have to do anything other then turn the key and off it started, but It was the previous owner who installed it and I have to information on it at all. I understand your comment about posting on a public forum about bypass etc.   I have no idea how to proceed so it might be time to do what I hate and call in an auto electrician.... bugger. thanks again

[ClassicAsh]

Ok some progress of sorts ! I have wired the car as original with the 3AS Immobiliser and ditched the cobra unit, and put the ignition switch back as original. now the good news is the car now turns over on the key, spits and farts as if its trying to start, but it wont. now the question is due to me not having any key fobs with the car will it ever start ?and  is this the immobiliser doing its jobs in preventing starting? I know that's its been mentioned that it can be bypassed and I appreciate that's that's not something to put on an open forum. so if anyone has that information and its not frowned upon can  someone email me the procedure of how to do it failing that any advice on alternatives would be greatly received.

 

email address [email protected]

 

Thanks in advance

[FlyingScot]

If it's definitely a 3AS then it inhibits the starter circuit only. Sounds like you have something else not quite right.
Time to go back to basics, fuel and a spark?
On turning the key to the ignition on position you should hear the fuel pump run for about 5 secs, likewise if you remove the airfilter and look into the SPi body, you should see fuel spraying out of the injection as you turn her over.
If not check the crank sensor is connected properly - dud you have the flywheel off by any chance ?

FS

[ClassicAsh]

Hi, fuel and spark are both present and fuel is spraying out of the injection, Yes I did have the flywheel off while doing the engine ..... that's sounds ominous !!  

[FlyingScot]

It's possible to refit the flywheel on in the wrong position....
The timing is from the crank angle sensor and the flywheel has cut outs which let MEMS know when to fire the ignition system (the distributor is just an empty shell on the SPi). It's possible that in refitting the flywheel that your timing is therefore out.
MEMS does everything it can to make the motor run which is why cars can actually have more than one fault but still run of a fashion.
That fact that yours won't start despite spark and fuelling is leading me to think that the timing could be out.
If you fitted a new clutch when it was out was it a specific injection one?
The issue is that the flywheel can be fitted 180 degrees out.

There are some threads about this on here, for example
http://www.theminifo...lywheel-to-spi/

FS

[ClassicAsh]

 Its still not wanting to start !. I did fit a new clutch, just checked and it was an injection one. phew!, is it possible to tell from pictures if the flywheel was fitted 180 degrees out? it was about 2 years ago that I did the engine and clutch so I cant remember much about it apart from the many pictures I had taken. I was pretty careful to make sure things went back the correct way.. but you never know I could have got it wrong, is there anyway to check while its on the car or is it clutch out time again... can I see it if I take the starter out and look through there?

[ClassicAsh]

just to add the plugs are pretty wet with petrol but are also very black and that's just after cranking it on the starter. the pugs are new and it only seems to take a few mins of cranking to make them wet with fuel and black.... any ideas?

[ClassicAsh]

As I am at the pulling my hair out stage. does anyone know of a good mini mechanic who know there way around the SPI as I don't  seem to be getting anywhere on my own. Hopefully someone mobile who would be able to come to me (Kettering area) Thanks in advance.

[FlyingScot]

Can you check through the crank sensor hole for the missing tooth in line with this ?

"Primary Trigger - Crank angle sensor (CAS).
The primary signal to initiate both ignition and fuelling emanates from a CAS mounted next to the flywheel.
The CAS consists of an inductive magnet that radiates a magnetic field.
The flywheel incorporates a reluctor disk containing 34 steel pins set at 10° intervals.
As the flywheel spins, and the pins are rotated in the magnetic field, an AC voltage signal is generated to indicate speed of rotation.
The two missing pins (set at 180° intervals) are a reference to TDC, and indicate crankshaft position by varying the signal as the flywheel spins.
One missing pin indicates TDC for cylinders 1 and 4, and the other missing pin indicates TDC for cylinders 2 and 3.
The peak-to-peak voltage of the speed signal can vary from 5 volts at idle to over 100volts at 6000 rpm.
The ECM microprocessor contains an analogue-to-digital converter to transform the AC pulse into a digital signal."

FS

[ClassicAsh]

Woo Hooo Sorted !!!!! after pulling my hair out and thinking of shutting the garage door on the mini for a few weeks I spoke to Dave at Rutland Minis.. what a top bloke straight away he suggested I had the distributor drive 180degrees out, so took off the Dizzy, followed the instruction  in the Haynes manual and whey hey !!! its started first time, and runs as sweet as a sweet thing !!!!! I think the neighbours heard my shouts of joy !!! lol I am one very happy guy.... thanks for your advice FS and Thanks again to Dave at Rutland MInis ...