16 replies to this topic

[paul1380]

Hi every one I have posted this before I had a rattling on the front suspension which I thought was my springs which I fitted instead of the rubber cones but have just found out that it wasn't as turning a corner the other day the front wheel collapsed!!!!

What had happened was the bottom ball joint had come apart I don't mean it broke I mean it came undone I have no idea how as it was torqued down when I renewed them. I am now going to renew them and torque and thread lock them this time but still scratching my head on how it came undone.

[cal844]

Not been tight enough

[panky]

Good grief, glad you're OK. Was there a locking washer fitted?

[RedRuby]

If it was correctly torqued then the only other way it could undo and fall apart is the tab washer was not fitted correctly. So when you redo them make sure you use as many of the flats on the dome nut to secure the tab washer too.

The only other possibility is that the grease nipple has come out and allowed the nut and dome nut to rotate but I think that is unlikely.

[Spider]

I've seen them come loose where they were under-shimmed in the first place, locking the pin tight, so the normal turning action undoes them. The reason given by the owner was "I just fitted all the washer thingys it came with." Would seem he fitted those that didn't come with enough shims in the first place, but none the less, a critical job undertaken without being for-armed with the right info.

 

Also seen similar where someone actually thought the shims were there for 'routine adjustment' as the joint wore.

[tiger99]

Exactly! The Rover manual requires that the running clearance is between "no nip" and 3 thou end float, and if in doubt a shim must be added.

It is unusual for the nut to be forcibly loosened, but not impossible, more commonly the ball pin suffers fatigue fracture. In this case it will be well fatigued and must be replaced.

I don't understand why so many people DON'T READ THE MANUAL before doing safety critical work. It is criminally irresponsible and the results of such stupidity can and have killed people.

And of course a worn ball, no longer precisely spherical (albeit two disjointed concentric hemispheres) can never work correctly. If they need shimming due to wear they need replacing. The time taken to do the job is exactly the same.

[paul1380]

Ok thanks guys I have just got me new ball joints going to thread lock them this time.  

[tiger99]

You do not need to threadlock them. Just assemble and shim EXACTLY as per the manual. They do not have a habit of coming apart is done correctly.

[Spider]

There's certainly no harm in using a thread locker, like Loctite. I do mine as a matter of course and I don't think the lock tabs are what they used to be. I tend to look at the current lock tabs as a 'tell tale' in fact to let me know if they have been working loose.

[tiger99]

The lock tabs used to be very good. But we have so many problems with parts these days that nothing would surprise me. Possibly the wrong grade of steel?

But there was a problem with grease nipples breaking off at one time, which can allow the lock tab to rotate. My approximately 1971 model had 2 broken nipples when I got it. I can't say why they broke because in both cases the stump of thread unscrewed very easily with finger torque just by gently tapping a triangular spike into it. Fortunately the lock tabs had not moved.

[paul1380]

I have noticed the lock tabs which came with the new ball joints when they were fitted are not as good as the original ones that I took off they have a very shallow side wall to them.

So I am going to replace these with the old ones which are still in good condition and have higher sides. Thanks guys for all your help yet again :)

[wile e coyote]

I've been working today  on a car with some remedial work for MOT.    that had one...... yes one... ... flat of the lockwasher turned up..I mean really two are done by default with a pair of grips ffs....

 

... ironically car failed MOT but not for that!!!.... lazy and frankly dangerous so called pro mechanics....

[paul1380]

I totally agree that is lazy practice but seeing as I had done two sides of the lock tab and it still came loose because the lock tabs were not suitable for the job. 

I have just checked the new ball joint lock tabs that were supplied with the new kit that I have brought they still aren't as good as the original lock tabs and they were from a good source and not cheep and cheer full. 

[tiger99]

What brand were your new ball joints? We can't hope to get problems like this fixed until the suppliers are "named and shamed".

And no, you will not be sued for libel if you tell things as they are. (Suppliers of shoddy goods NEVER want their name revealed in court.) But you will earn much respect from fellow Mini owners.

[Magneto]

I bought some extra spare locktabs from MiniSpares recently, they seem to be good stuff, plenty thick enough metal.

 

I've only locked two tabs up when I do them, I have never had one come loose.......ever. my understanding is if you shim and tighten them properly the lock tab is just more of a safety than an actual lock.