93 replies to this topic

[Spider]

A guy nearby here converted his Moke, I'll see if I can dig up some pics and info.

 

It is very unlikely that all petrol outlets will disappear within the next 50 years.

 

You think they'll last 50 years?  I can see them disappearing faster than that.

[Mini-dude]

You think they'll last 50 years?  I can see them disappearing faster than that.

My references to my answer is the rc market. Electric is dominating almost every single sector of it but company are still making specialty fuel to power the nitro ones. So I can see them lasting more then 50 year their probably would be a lot less of them but not completely gone.

Edited by Mini-dude, 20 February 2018 - 02:28 AM.

[Mito]

The average age of a British car is under 8 years. Once electric fully takes off, it would be less than 10 years for a very large number of petrol cars to be off the road. Petrol stations will start closing rapidly as sales dry up during this period making it increasingly difficult to buy fuel.

I'm sure it will still be possible to by fuel for some considerable time, it will just become increasingly difficult to the point where you have to drive many miles out of the way to buy some. Much like you had to do to charge electric cars only a couple of years ago.

I think the reliance on the ic engine will only be for another 5-10 years as electric is cleaner and cheaper to fuel - expect some new taxes. Most electrics now have a real range of about 150 miles and you can charge at home if you have off road parking, which is very convenient.

[Mini-dude]

The real question is when do you think battery energy density will reach or pass gasoline energy density.

[Mito]

With the amount of money now being invested in battery tech, I wouldn't think it will be too long.

The majority though will be more concerned with speed of recharging and range. Range is already not far off and being able to recharge in the time it takes to stretch your legs and get a coffee already makes them suitable for a large number of people. The recharge facilities for on street parkings an issue though.

[Mini-dude]

I know range will matter more to the common person then alright performance, but once that energy density is reach very amazing thing will happen lol. Their are many idea floating around about recharge time from battery swaps to wireless recharging roads in high traffic areas and rapid recharging battery. I like the Lamborghini Terzo Millennio concept were it used supercapacitor instead of battery, which allows super rapid charge time but sadly just an idea for now, no current capacitor that I am aware of that can meet those requirements

Edited by Mini-dude, 20 February 2018 - 07:22 AM.

[Spider]

The real question is when do you think battery energy density will reach or pass gasoline energy density.

 

I don't know that it will, or probably not in our lifetime, but it is getting realistic and clearly, quite sensibly usable.

[superchiwawa]

honestly I think electric cars are not viable long term. The amount of rare metals required to keep up with the exponential the surge of electric vehicle hype to manufacture current battery technolgy is simply not sustainable, not to mention the environmental impact this requires. It's more of a 10-15 year solution until we've mined the earth dry or completely revolutionized battery technology so that it's environmentally friendly and economically sustainable.

 

Hydrogen fuel cells are a possibility, but again, until we crack fusion power generation or another form of cheap and highly efficient energy generation, it's more of a technical prowess than a sustainable and green friendly transport fuel (it takes a LOT of power to break hydrogen bonds from the molecules Hydrogen is attached everywhere to).

 

Simply put, the mass hype of green transport using electricity is cack at the moment. Don't be fooled by the hype. There is no long term solution, until some major boffins crack a holy grail open. I think hybrid technology is a better transitional solution until then, given we can spread the amount of resources required vs reduced pollution and etc over a longer period, that is of unknown duration

Edited by superchiwawa, 20 February 2018 - 10:06 AM.

[nicklouse]

honestly I think electric cars are not viable long term.

 they are but how they are powered is the issue.

[superchiwawa]

 

honestly I think electric cars are not viable long term.

 they are but how they are powered is the issue.

 

 

Potaytoes potaatoes, we could say the same for all power sources... We're kinda saying the same thing ;) I just argue that today it's not viable, the hype is ahead of realities :)

Edited by superchiwawa, 20 February 2018 - 10:35 AM.

[SolarB]

Thought about it 5 years ago when restoring my Mini. I didn't do it then, principally because of the cost and time taken for a conversion. Battery technology has moved on since then and prices have fallen. Think I'll be going electric in the next 2-3 years for my daily commute and a converted Mini is high on the list.

Regarding the IVA, when I looked at converting I believed testing is not required provided that:
1. A change of fuel declaration is made.
2. Enough points are left after the engine conversion to retain identity of the car.

Provided the shell is not modified then as far as I can see there shouldn't be a problem. The new Tesla batteries are much easier to package than the lead acid I was originally looking at. My target range of 60 miles between charges should be easily achievable now.

[mab01uk]

Some of the engineering magazines are questioning the lack of a future infrastructure plan......electric car users tend to charge their cars and top them up at every opportunity.....eg. when a large part of the commuting workforce arrive home at 5-6pm they will immediately plug there car in to charge for next day, shortly after the lights may go off in your street unless there is some serious and expensive upgrading of our existing power supply networks?

Edited by mab01uk, 20 February 2018 - 12:39 PM.

[Cooperman]

Someone calculated that to charge up 15,000,000 cars to do the same mileage as the same number of petrol cars will require several new nuclear power stations. Where are the plans for building these?
How will existing fuel duty and VAT be replaced? Presumably by a mileage tax on electric vehicles equal to the tax received per mile on petrol/diesel vehicles. Around 12 to 15p per mile is fuel tax at present.

[carbon]

The real question is when do you think battery energy density will reach or pass gasoline energy density.

Lithium ion battery is about 0.3kWh/kg, compared to petrol at about 10kWhr/kg. So needs a 30 times improvement, and will be a very long time for any battery to reach parity with petrol or diesel..

 

And have you seen footage of what happens when a lithium battery goes up? I wouldn't want to be in a car which used a 'petrol equivalent' lithium-ion battery. .

[Mini-dude]

 

The real question is when do you think battery energy density will reach or pass gasoline energy density.

Lithium ion battery is about 0.3kWh/kg, compared to petrol at about 10kWhr/kg. So needs a 30 times improvement, and will be a very long time for any battery to reach parity with petrol or diesel..
 
And have you seen footage of what happens when a lithium battery goes up? I wouldn't want to be in a car which used a 'petrol equivalent' lithium-ion battery. .

It depends on the type of lithium battery, it does takes actual effort to get Lithium Ion to be in catastrophic condition so over all it won't be any worse then the equivalent gasoline fire. Energy is energy, the only difference is the storage type. Lithium Polymer on the other hand is crazy lol, I deal with it all the time in rc and those are normally the Lithium battery you see catching fire. Carbon nanotube tube are making great improvement in battery technology.

 

<Editted to make the words a little more reader friendly - MS>

Edited by Moke Spider, 21 February 2018 - 07:51 AM.