17 replies to this topic

[Dannyboolahlah]

Just seen in another thread someone say you should never start a Mini with the clutch in. Why’s this?
I have to confess I do it every time I start it, out of habit from newer vehicles that won’t start unless you do!

[nicklouse]

it put excess loads on the crank thrust washers. promoting wear as they are lacking in lubrication at the start.

 

think how things work. you press on the clutch pedal that pushes the crank towards the rad until the spring is compressed. so this load is put onto "dry" thrust washers.

[Dannyboolahlah]

Makes sense.
I’ll have to try and break the habit.
Thanks.

[Retroman]

As Nick says its not good practice to start a Mini with the clutch down, its like resting your hand on a gearstick...a bad habit

 

The extra friction also takes more energy from the starter and the stronger clutch the worse it is

 

There is a need for a bracket and switch on the starter exciter wire so that Minis can only start with the clutch up

 

One way to think about starting with the clutch down;

 

Its a modern bad habit because it can be started in gear too and if you the then lift the clutch without thinking and bang, one of my neighbors did it...damaged the car when going through the front of the garage LOL twice !!

 

I found out the hard way when I was 14 teaching my sister to drive a tractor....nearly shat myself... bang into a wall in reverse

 

It should always be ; rest your feet...handbrake - neutral - choke(?), all done with the left hand moving forward... then start

[Ethel]

You could argue it's a safety feature as much as modern cars having starter inhibitors to make you hold the clutch down. If the car breaks down somewhere dangerous being able to crank it in gear could help you move it somewhere safer.

[Retroman]

I realise that, but its not 'safe' if you leave it in gear...as usual its a 1/2 baked idea, the inhibitor should be on the neutral gate

 

Its also a zero mechanical sympathy method ; starting with the clutch down tempts people to start in gear and set off instantly

 

Its like any machine its only as safe as the operator

 

Very few ever think about cranking in gear to move to safety, and even fewer have ever done it

[nicklouse]

 

Very few ever think about cranking in gear to move to safety, and even fewer have ever done it

cough. done it more than once.

[Retroman]

ditto...

[Dannyboolahlah]

I think it’s sensible in modern cars (assuming the engine is better designed in that aspect) as it’ll be one of the various things that help reduce insurance groups by eliminating claims for little car park dings.
My van also seems to start a bit easier with the clutch in, and I’m pretty sure when I learnt to drive I was taught to start with the clutch in, even though it wasn’t necessary to start the car.

If the clutch stresses the crank washers, I’m guessing I shouldn’t sit in traffic with the clutch in either?... because I’m guilty of that one too.

[Readers14]

Never actually thought this would do any damage, as I have to start up my daily modern car with the clutch depressed.

 

But thinking about it, it would accelerate wear on the thrust washers. Must break the habit of starting with the clutch in.

[Retroman]

It would be even more sensible and  '100%  safe ' if the switch was on the neutral gate,

 

but more expensive so that's probably why its not done

[Ethel]

 

 Dannyboolahlah,

 

Indeed, the thrusts have a neutral effect - push the crank and as much of a gap is created on the opposite side for increased oil flow as is lost on the clutch side.

 

I'd think it is a numbers game for the manufacturers: clutch in or out the crank bearings are more likely to make it out of the warranty period than an abused starter motor. Do bi-mass flywheels come in to the equation too?

 

Then there's the planet saving automatic engine cut out. You'd hope that's been designed in to the clutch throw out and it might be harder to override a clutch in sensor than just make you hold the pedal down when you turn the key?

[Dannyboolahlah]

It would be even more sensible and '100% safe ' if the switch was on the neutral gate,

but more expensive so that's probably why its not done

Fair point.
The sensors are there, most cars now will tell you what gear you’re in on a display, and tell you what gear you should be in for max mpg. So don’t see why it couldn’t be done this way.
Unless it just calculates it from engine and road speed rather than sensors in the gearbox. Don’t think it could though, as my Fiesta cuts out when you’re in neutral with the clutch out, and starts again when you drop the clutch; but it won’t start if you put it in gear with the engine off and then drop the clutch.

[Ethel]

Will it still tell you what gear it's in though?

[Dannyboolahlah]

I think it only comes up to tell you what gear you should be in on the Fiesta, not a constant display of which you’re in. I’m pretty sure it does in some cars though.
The Ford system definitely knows when you’re in gear though. For some reason you can start it the first time with it in gear, but if you put it in gear when the start-stop has turned the engine off it throws a wobbler.

Edited by Dannyboolahlah, 26 July 2018 - 11:58 AM.