30 replies to this topic

[Pete649]

Not sure any new cars have a 15 year production life nowadays.

 

I think it is more like seven or eight years design life now. Built in obsolescence. What a load of rubbish.

 

They don't make 'em like they used to.

[Cooperman]

 

 

What's the point if we're only supposed to have another 7 years of petrol car production left?

 

I thought it was 2040.

 

I just had a quick Google to get that figure.  2040 is the purported outright ban, I think 7 years is when manufacturers are supposed to commit to setting the ball rolling.  Not sure any new cars have a 15 year production life nowadays.

 

I thought 2040 was the end date from which pure petrol and diesel cars may no longer be sold. It was stated that from 2040 petrol-electric hybrids would still be made and sold.

However, normal pre-2040 cars will be around for a long time after that and will still need petrol or diesel. It may well be that petrol and diesel will be relatively much more expensive by then, but as I'll be 100 then it won't cause me a problem I would confidently guess!

As was stated in the press recently, the provisions for re-charging around 1000 electric cars at each motorway service area at any one time doesn't seem to have been considered, nor does the projected re-charging time. Also, are the additional nuclear power stations needed for this huge increase in the demand for electricity past the planning stage, or has planning not yet started?

Don't get me wrong, I am not electric, but if so much of our established infra-structure (oil fired central heating, coal fires in the home, gas cookers, etc) is to be replaced by electric stuff, we are going to need, maybe, 10 additional nuclear power stations. Solar and wind cannot be relied upon the that extent. Are they even at the planning stage yet? Now there is a question.

[phillrulz]

 

 

What's the point if we're only supposed to have another 7 years of petrol car production left?

 

I thought it was 2040.

 

I just had a quick Google to get that figure.  2040 is the purported outright ban, I think 7 years is when manufacturers are supposed to commit to setting the ball rolling.  Not sure any new cars have a 15 year production life nowadays.

 

 

What are they going to make then considering diesel is now also getting a slating hahaha 

[Ethel]

As others have said they'll be making fuel burners for a while yet, but the R&D, design of new models etc will stop as they commit to electrics. I should try and find the site I got the 2025 date from so I can say exactly what it's for.

 

Interesting bit on Radio 4, it reckoned they're not far off doubling the battery capacity and seriously slashing charge times. Nano technology and switching from carbon to silicon for lithium batteries apparently. The other twist is if we'll have our own cars when they're all driverless.  

[Ethel]

 

Not sure any new cars have a 15 year production life nowadays.

 

I think it is more like seven or eight years design life now. Built in obsolescence. What a load of rubbish.

 

They don't make 'em like they used to.

 

There has to be some irony in the likes of the Mini rotting badly enough to need major surgery well within  in  your 7-8 years and today's jalopies filling the scrappers with barely a rust spot on them. 

[unburntfuelinthemorning]

 

 

Not sure any new cars have a 15 year production life nowadays.

 

I think it is more like seven or eight years design life now. Built in obsolescence. What a load of rubbish.

 

They don't make 'em like they used to.

 

There has to be some irony in the likes of the Mini rotting badly enough to need major surgery well within  in  your 7-8 years and today's jalopies filling the scrappers with barely a rust spot on them. 

 

Yes, governments and car manufacturers care about the environment so much that they have to produce millions and millions entirely new vehicles every seven to eight years and recycle the old ones using lots of energy and money. 

 

I mean we could build shells which last for much longer and then upgrade engines and electronics etc. as they wear out or there is a worthwhile improvement to be made to save on costs for consumers and to use less energy a bit like in the aircraft industry but hey, that's just a silly idea.  Besides everyone needs a slightly different looking dull generic car every seven to eight years or they'll get bored.

 

I just hope those of us who run classics will still be able to in the future.  It's still legal to and people still drive traction engines but coal's a little easier to produce than petrol.  Maybe we'll all be converting to electric motors - I hope not though - doesn't smell right on a cold morning.

[rich_959]

It's all a bit of a worry! I work in the energy sector, and I still don't see a realistic strategy on how the government plans to fill the shortfall in electricity supply when more and more people move to electric. It's a long time until new nuclear plans come to fruition and coal fired stations are being closed at every turn. Additional renewables (wind, solar and energy-from-waste) are all well and good, but only make up a small percentage of the current demand, never mind the future increases.

 

I see the infrastructure for electric cars in the UK lagging behind and I expect you'll have a lot of people driving electric/petrol plug in hybrids, but only charging them at home and skipping the public charging points, simply because there will be huge queues. Not the most efficient way to use these cars, using a small petrol engine to lug around heavy discharged batteries. This already happens a lot with company cars. A golf GTE costs a business user around a quarter the tax of a Golf GTI/GTD, but most owners I've known rarely charge them up (no charge points at work, and they park far away from their front door at home) and so just use them in hybrid mode.

 

As for cars in general, it seems like it will be an end of an era. There will still of course be performance cars, but they'll be very different and much more sanitised. I'll stick with my Mini and my Porsche 928 as hobby cars for as long as the government permits me to, but I expect it will get more expensive. My daily driver is a LR Discovery and I expect that will be the first one be to taxed/expensed off the road, or banned altogether. Not looking forward to heavy towing with an electric/petrol hybrid! But engineers will make it work and we'll all adapt, that I'm sure. My kids will grow up in a very different world of motoring and I'm glad I caught the end of the petrol head generation.

[Retroman]

The whole EV scenario for the majority is pie in the sky and jam tomorrow for most people for many reasons,

 

just like self drive vehicles and hydrogen powered cars 

 

http://www.theminifo...es#entry3533939

 

By the time people realise that for 80% of us EV not going to happen they will realise that 4ppm Co2 has not affected the temperature of the earth, it's just an excuse to screw us all for money, and the 20% using EV will end up being taxed on that as unless its charged from renewable energy its less efficient and more polluting anyway, just has a longer tailpipe.

[Cooperman]

I am not alone in wondering how the Gov't will replace fossil fuel duty, which currently provides so much working capital for the country.

Obviously the electricity will have to be taxed at a level to replace the existing fuel duties, and as it will hard to distinguish between electricity used for domestic use and that drawn down for your car plugged in at home. Will all electricity be taxed at a much higher rate to compensate for the loss of fossil fuel taxation? One might assume so.

As alluded to above, the 'energy gap' between the electricity generated and that required in 20 years time has not been properly identified and planned for by this, or any other government. If we get 'Commie Corbyn' in charge next, will he do any better? I doubt it as he'll be increasing tax overall on everything to pay for his 'social engineering', not for fossil fuel replacement in fiscal terms.

Will this 'electric revolution' actually happen? Now there is a question to ponder.

[unburntfuelinthemorning]

In many ways I dislike the Toyota Prius because of what it has stood for and the way celebrities have promoted it in a virtue-signalling sort of way.  On the other hand it has interesting technology in it with its Atkin's cycle petrol engine amongst other innovations.  It has been popular with taxi drivers, can go quite a way on a gallon of petrol and people have reported good reliability with relatively straighforward servicing.  It can run on petrol only and the later models can run at least a little way, up to a certain speed on electric power only.  It can be plugged in but doesn't have to be.

 

Wouldn't the most logical step from the government have been to make this sort of hybrid technology compulsory.  CO₂ emissions would come down quite a bit with this and CO, HC, NO_x, and particulate emissions would also be reduced substantially.  Maybe when technology had moved on we could then consider having no combustion engine - in another fifty years maybe.  I heard someone say once the best way to reduce CO₂ emissions in cars isn't with fancy technology but is to make new cars do 1 mpg more.  Makes a big difference when you add up all the new cars.

 

Anyone made a Mini hybrid with an A-series plus an electric motor?  The battery weight might spoil things though.

[Cooperman]

A good friend of mine is working an an electric classic Mini. He has the prototype built and we are shortly to test it for range with a specific battery and known charge level. 

It will be taken to an airfield to which I have access on my trailer and we can measure out the distance using my car's odometer, then drive a set circuit at fixed and varying speeds and see how far it goes for a specific number of amps under different conditions. 

he might be going to market this once it is refined.

It is interesting, because my friend has any years experience of building electric river boats.

I'll let you know how we get on once the tests are complete.

[Ethel]

 

By the time people realise that for 80% of us EV not going to happen they will realise that 4ppm Co2 has not affected the temperature of the earth, it's just an excuse to screw us all for money, and the 20% using EV will end up being taxed on that as unless its charged from renewable energy its less efficient and more polluting anyway, just has a longer tailpipe.

That was also mentioned on the R4 prog, the emissions of the latest petrol and diesels are negligible compared to other pollution sources.

 

We ought to have reduced our electricity demand a fair whack with led bulbs, flat screen tellies, microwave ovens etc; not to mention the wholesale destruction of industries like steel and ship building.

 

 

 

I am not alone in wondering how the Gov't will replace fossil fuel duty, which currently provides so much working capital for the country.

 

 

If we get the "off peak" smart charging they reckon, then it ought to be possible to bill us separately for what goes in to our car batteries. Though, if it cost more, I can easily envisage Ebay being full of Chinese charger cables with a 13amp plug on one end. If they want us to ease demand with off peak charging then the incentive of making it cheaper is the obvious way to go - maybe those Ebay cables will be to power your telly and cook your tea off what juice is left in  your car before it's overnight top up?

 

As for making up the lost tax revenue: will there still be the environmental justification we have for punitively  taxing fossil fuels? It'll just be extra energy consumption whether you use to run your hot-tub or go for a nice drive out. Though a pay as you drive scheme offers plenty of interesting opportunities to control, or manage, our road usage. So, if we choose to thumb our nose at a post Brexit Europe with our own GPS satellites*, we might actually have something worthwhile and marketable.  

 

*apparently there's a step in technology available that reduces power demand and improves signal penetration to work in buildings, tunnels etc.

[mab01uk]

Hi,

So it would seem that the biggest problem is it dissolves rubber!

That means the tip on your float chamber valve, probably your fuel pump and the fuel hoses!

Then if it combines with any water in your fuel system, like condensation in the tank is creates a jelly like substance!

Fantastic, thanks EU!

Cheers 

 

There is an interesting in-depth article on 'Ethanol in Fuel' in the January 2019 issue of 'CooperWorld' the magazine of the Mini Cooper Register.

Ethanol is due to rise to almost 10% by volume in UK from January 2019. Recent research, tests and checks by the writer of the article on various carburettor and injection classic Minis found that rubber fuel lines soon harden and degrade, usually cracking from the inside out, unseen until failure occurs, especially if outer braiding prevents proper inspection. All rubber 'O' rings need to be made from 'Vitron' introduced in early 2000's, the HIF SU is particularly vulnerable as the float chamber is 100% sealed with an O ring and if it fails the leak is directly above the exhaust manifold.....

 

Burlen/SU has changed their fuel pump diaphragm to a single layer ethanol resistant component, advice is to change it if more than 10 years old.

Burlen/SU needle valve tips are now 'Vitron' tipped to resist ethanol, (SU/Burlen part number now prefixed with a letter V to designate).

Brass floats fail as ethanol attacks the solder over time. An ethanol proof black 'StayUp' float made from a closed cell puncture proof foam has been introduced.

SU needle jet and needle material has been changed to Nickel Silver around 2010 to make them ethanol proof along with other wet side SU components.

SPi and MPi Mini fuel hose rubber components are also at risk as they were designed prior to 1995.

 

The conclusion is if your fuel system components are over 10 years old you can be sure they are not ethanol proof sufficiently for current fuel blends, so be vigilant, check regularly or replace in advance as necessary and stay safe.

Edited by mab01uk, 26 December 2018 - 01:50 PM.

[dyshipfakta]

Economy 7 electric runs on a separate meter and is cheaper for 7 hours overnight ideal for a electric car. Seems to be making abit of a come back now electric storage heaters are becoming more efficient.

[Cooperman]

I think I shall use Avgas 100LL in my 1964 S to avod the issue with 10% ethanol.