23 replies to this topic

[richcrosse]

I have a 1380 which was running a Fletcher alloy 2 core rad with the standard 11 blade plastic fan and waterless coolant. The car has no heater matrix fitted and no bypass hose.

The car was getting hot when stationary for any period of time, but cooled back down as soon as moving along, so I decided to refresh and upgrade the cooling system by doing the following;

- remove thermostat and fit blanking plate
- new water pump (high capacity)
- new thermostat housing
- new fan belt
- new 4 blade fan with spacer
- flush the block and rad
- fresh 50/50 blue coolant
- new top hose
- new bottom hose
- new temperature sender

Now, I've done all of the above and essentially all I've achieved is to reverse the problem. By that I mean, it will idle fine now for any period of time and stay around half way on the gauge, but as soon as I drive it, even a few hundred yards it seems, the gauge shoots up well past H and sits there until I stop again, then it slowly comes back down. As I said, this is pretty much the opposite of what it was doing before!

I've now put it down to either a bad temperature gauge (it's running the classic Smith's) or the engine is just putting out too much heat for the system to cope, but given that wasn't a problem before I changed everything round, I don't see why it would be now?

I don't seem to be losing any coolant and no signs of steam etc although I haven't wanted to drive it long to push that as the last thing I want to do is cook my lovely engine...

Any suggestions please?

[Bat]

Hi,

Go back to the original set-up and fit an electric fan under the wheel arch?

It sounds like it was working fine but just needs more air flow when stationary.

Cheers 

[yeti21586]

Why have you removed the thermo stat???

[richcrosse]

Removing the stat was just to prevent it getting hot from the get go and try to ensure the coolant was circulating the rad to stay cool. I'm not precious about it and happy to refit, but I don't think refitting the thermostat will cure my current issue?

In terms of going back to original, id prefer not to run the waterless coolant simply because it's so damn expensive to refresh on regular basis. Plus on paper it's not as efficient at heat transfer as water based coolant. Aside from that, it would really just mean refitting the 11 blade fan and thermostat and whilst i'm happy to try it, I just can't see logically how/why it would cure the problem.. but then it could just be one of those weird mini things and if it does solve it, that's really all that matters!

Edited by richcrosse, 07 October 2018 - 03:33 PM.

[Dusky]

Without a thermostat water circulates too fast and cavitates easily. Its worth a try. Remember to bleed the system.
Also, is the engineering stqndard? Lean and overly advanced causes heat issues as well.

Edited by Dusky, 07 October 2018 - 03:45 PM.

[imack]

Refit the old temperature sender and retest.
I'd also refit the thermostat, it'll never maintain the correct running temperature in my experience.
My 1380 runs just below the N on its original smiths gauge in 30 degrees plus experienced this summer with a radtech alloy rad, 11 blade plastic fan, 82 degree stat, minispares EVO water pump, small pulley, 13 row oil cooler and heater matrix with valve always open.
It will start to creep up in traffic but I just switch the heater fan on and temp never goes more than a couple of needle thicknesses over the 'N'.
Temp in car can get a bit unpleasant though!

[Spider]

Measure the actual temp with something else and establish what your temps actually are.

 

I've found all the new Smiths senders to be wrong and make the gauge read hot when the engine is not.

 

Refit a the Thermostat, you need Temperature Stability and without one, you can't get that. There's lots of down sides to not having one and in particular, the engine will rarely be in proper tune.

 

While on the subject of tune, is the Fuel and Ignition requirements correct? These can cause run hot conditions.

 

Dump the 50/50 mix and go to a 30/70 mix (70% water) and no more.

 

For traffic and slow moving, you'll find the plastic fan better than the 4 blader, but for pushing them most air above 2000 RPM, the 6 blader is best.

 

I'm not a fan of Thermo Fans (pun intended   ) but if you spend a lot of time stationary or in traffic, it maybe a solution.

[richcrosse]

Okay, thanks all - I will order a new stat as the old one looked fairly well used (although at some point I'll test it and if functioning, I can keep as a spare). Any pros/cons as to whether I fit the 74, 82 or 88?

 

I will also source a thermometer so that I can check the actual coolant temperature - I assume 'normal' should be around 90 degrees?

 

As for the fan - is the consensus that the 11 blade is sufficient, or is the 6 blade worth the extra cost? I've read numerous old posts on this and overall, opinions seem to suggest the 6 blade is the best all round compromise? (presumably why it's the most expensive.. ) Obviously if I'm fitting another fan I'll be removing the rad again so will take Moke Spider's advice and mix 30/70 this time.

 

Regarding the tune, quite honestly I don't know.. I do know that the car was setup on a RR by Alan Jeffry's in Plymouth by the previous owner (approx. 18 months ago). No idea if it's been fettled since then, but I haven't touched it since I've owned it. Is there an easy way to identify whether the ignition has been advanced/retarded or if it's running lean etc?

Edited by richcrosse, 07 October 2018 - 09:15 PM.

[richcrosse]

If it helps, the car is fitted with twin SU carbs, aldon electric fast road distributor with ignitor and a lucas sports coil

[nicklouse]

Okay, thanks all - I will order a new stat as the old one looked fairly well used (although at some point I'll test it and if functioning, I can keep as a spare). Any pros/cons as to whether I fit the 74, 82 or 88?

 

I will also source a thermometer so that I can check the actual coolant temperature - I assume 'normal' should be around 90 degrees?

 

As for the fan - is the consensus that the 11 blade is sufficient, or is the 6 blade worth the extra cost? I've read numerous old posts on this and overall, opinions seem to suggest the 6 blade is the best all round compromise? (presumably why it's the most expensive.. ) Obviously if I'm fitting another fan I'll be removing the rad again so will take Moke Spider's advice and mix 30/70 this time.

 

Regarding the tune, quite honestly I don't know.. I do know that the car was setup on a RR by Alan Jeffry's in Plymouth by the previous owner (approx. 18 months ago). No idea if it's been fettled since then, but I haven't touched it since I've owned it. Is there an easy way to identify whether the ignition has been advanced/retarded or if it's running lean etc?

normal is what ever the thermostat is.

the standard plastic fan will be fine as long as it is fitted with the smooth side to the engine.

[richcrosse]

Yep, that makes sense.. thanks!

[timmy850]

Do you have any hose connected to the heater port on the top of the head? 

[Curley]

Personally I run a 82 stat with the standard 11 blade plastic fan in my 1310 without any problems. You can very easily check if your current stat is working by placing it in a pan of water & heat it up on the stove. You will be able to see if it opens close to or at the temp its rated for. 

 

Also make sure you have to correct 'IAT' coolant for a cast iron engine. Many of the products available these days are designed for aluminium engines which require different additives. Avoid the OAT/HOAT/NOAT stuff.

 

Another, often overlooked, area of engine cooling is the engine oil. You may want to consider a oil change ensuring you use good old fashioned mineral oil - avoid the modern synthetics as these do not hold up well to the Mini's unique use of the same oil for both engine and gearbox. 

Edited by Curley, 09 October 2018 - 10:08 PM.

[Cooperman]

On  my 1310 Cooper 'S' I use the following:

 

Original standard Cooper 'S' radiator

Standard water pump

6-Blade 'export' fan

Thermostat blanking sleeve

Standard heater matrix

Capillary-type temperature gauge

Under-wing auxiliary electric fan, manually switched (normally only needed when stationary and in hot weather)

 

The car has twin H4 carbs, 11:1 CR, 286 cam, big-valve head, Aldon 'custom' distributor, etc.

The only temperature issue I have had was a few years ago when it would go 'into the red' on short journeys. I did a lot of work to cure this including changing the radiator for a new standard one, but it all made no difference. Then I fitted the capillary-type gauge kit from Mini Spares and immediately the temperature was 'correct'. The electric gauges may be fine for standard cars where temp is not an issue, but for cars with increased power a more accurate one is needed. The problem is that unless the reading is correct you may end up doing as I did and 'chasing your tail' to sort out a problem which doesn't exist.

 

My auxilliary fan is only needed when sitting waiting to start a special stage or when in heavy traffic, but I do switch it on when doing special tests where there are often low gear driving combined with high revs of up to 7000 rpm.

 

As my car is a Mk.1 I can't run other than a standard radiator because the Mk.1 has the radiator shroud on the inner wing. However, the Cooper 'S' standard radiator is very good so long as it is in good condition.

Edited by Cooperman, 10 October 2018 - 08:58 AM.

[richcrosse]

On  my 1310 Cooper 'S' I use the following:

 

Original standard Cooper 'S' radiator

Standard water pump

6-Blade 'export' fan

Thermostat blanking sleeve

Standard heater matrix

Capillary-type temperature gauge

Under-wing auxiliary electric fan, manually switched (normally only needed when stationary and in hot weather)

 

The car has twin H4 carbs, 11:1 CR, 286 cam, big-valve head, Aldon 'custom' distributor, etc.

The only temperature issue I have had was a few years ago when it would go 'into the red' on short journeys. I did a lot of work to cure this including changing the radiator for a new standard one, but it all made no difference. Then I fitted the capillary-type gauge kit from Mini Spares and immediately the temperature was 'correct'. The electric gauges may be fine for standard cars where temp is not an issue, but for cars with increased power a more accurate one is needed. The problem is that unless the reading is correct you may end up doing as I did and 'chasing your tail' to sort out a problem which doesn't exist.

 

My auxilliary fan is only needed when sitting waiting to start a special stage or when in heavy traffic, but I do switch it on when doing special tests where there are often low gear driving combined with high revs of up to 7000 rpm.

 

As my car is a Mk.1 I can't run other than a standard radiator because the Mk.1 has the radiator shroud on the inner wing. However, the Cooper 'S' standard radiator is very good so long as it is in good condition.

 

 

 

Very interesting, I may look at a capillary gauge as it would be nice to have a more reliable temp reading, does it just screw straight into the existing temp sensor hole in the block?

 

(something like this I'm assuming: https://minispares.c...ure/TIM005.aspx)

 

I'm also definitely going to fit an aux fan - did you fit yours on the wheel arch, or engine bay side of the wing panel? I'm assuming the closer it is to the radiator the more efficiency I'll get, but space is tight around the rad as we know so the easier option would certainly be to put it in the arch.

 

 

Do you have any hose connected to the heater port on the top of the head? 

 

No it's blocked off

 

Personally I run a 82 stat with the standard 11 blade plastic fan in my 1310 without any problems. You can very easily check if your current stat is working by placing it in a pan of water & heat it up on the stove. You will be able to see if it opens close to or at the temp its rated for. 

 

Also make sure you have to correct 'IAT' coolant for a cast iron engine. Many of the products available these days are designed for aluminium engines which require different additives. Avoid the OAT/HOAT/NOAT stuff.

 

Another, often overlooked, area of engine cooling is the engine oil. You may want to consider a oil change ensuring you use good old fashioned mineral oil - avoid the modern synthetics as these do not hold up well to the Mini's unique use of the same oil for both engine and gearbox. 

 

Coolant is the correct type.

 

Engine oil is very clean and not that old, but I had planned to do another change before winter once the cooling was sorted, so may bring that forward to see if it helps any.