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#1 MaximMini

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 11:46 AM

Hi Everyone,

 

When organising the parts for my gearboxes (see my dairy) I came by two questions:

 

1) Is it advisable to reuse the Idler Needle Roller bearing TUK100320?

 

I have checked the bearings I have and at least two of them look absolutely spot on with no marking on the rollers. Budget is set to no limits but still I would like to reuse parts where possible.

 

2) Replacement Layshaft Large Roller Bearing

 

The new replacement roller bearing I received from John Guess appears to have shorter rollers than the old ones. Any opinion on this one?

 

KqLBUbo.jpg

 

Cheers from the Pied Piper's Town



#2 mini13

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 01:05 PM

and less total rollers too?



#3 MaximMini

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 03:32 PM

Yes, it's 13 vs. 16 rollers

#4 Spider

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 05:13 PM

Some reading here;-

 

http://www.theminifo...ild-essentials/

and Rick's experince

 

http://www.theminifo...-gear-bearings/

 



#5 MaximMini

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 06:30 PM

Very interesting read indeed. Any sugestions on whether to reuse the idler needle roller bearing?

#6 Spider

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 06:32 PM

Very interesting read indeed. Any sugestions on whether to reuse the idler needle roller bearing?

 

If it's in good order, sure.



#7 MaximMini

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 06:55 PM

Have been in the home workshop again to check the new replacement bearings again. Same story for the
13H9513 1st motion / layshaft needle roller bearing. The difference is not that obvious but again less rollers and slightly shorter.

For the idler gear roller bearing I have one NOS Rover and one Koyo made in CZ. The Koyo one looks good. Wonder if someone has used those in the past.

Anyone know what bearings MiniSpares is offering lately? Or do you buy bearings by size from bearing suppliers.

#8 Spider

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 07:13 PM

For the idler gear roller bearing I have one NOS Rover and one Koyo made in CZ. The Koyo one looks good. Wonder if someone has used those in the past.

 

Koyo are actually OEM.

 

Torrington were the manufacturer and supplier to BMC and Leyland and also for much of the Rover days.

Timken bought Torrington.

 

Timken then sold them to Koyo.

 

The Koyo bearings I buy are made in the very same factory as those that were supplied to the factory. I didn't know they had a factory in Czech though, but, if it's a genuine Koyo, it's as good as they come.

 

https://www.koyo.eu/...ntegration.html



#9 MaximMini

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 07:57 AM

Hi Guys,

 

Do you have the dimensions of these three bearings at hand so that I could attempt to buy replacements at a reputable bearing reseller? And do you know what brand MiniSpares is shipping these days?



#10 whistler

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 09:50 AM

Hi Everyone,

 

When organising the parts for my gearboxes (see my dairy) I came by two questions:

 

1) Is it advisable to reuse the Idler Needle Roller bearing TUK100320?

 

I have checked the bearings I have and at least two of them look absolutely spot on with no marking on the rollers. Budget is set to no limits but still I would like to reuse parts where possible.

 

2) Replacement Layshaft Large Roller Bearing

 

The new replacement roller bearing I received from John Guess appears to have shorter rollers than the old ones. Any opinion on this one?

 

KqLBUbo.jpg

 

Cheers from the Pied Piper's Town

Talk to John Guess about it. If these are the same as he fits to his reconditioned gearboxes then they'll be correct.



#11 Hunter2

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 12:12 AM

Two mates in Australia asked me to post on this thread...     

 

"Hi Chris, the "cost" of the failure of the KOR branded idler gear bearings was extremely high - complete strip down of engine & transmission (note - both tranny case & drop gear housing in the skip), drop gears in the skip, block jet hot washed before new gallery & frost plugs, everything inspected, new bearings throughout, new oil pump, new oil filter housing, new oil pressure relief plunger & spring, crank cleaned, checked for straight, journals polished (std/std), head stripped, everything checked, cleaned.... Some might say assembly error but, no, idler thrust clearances were checked 6 ways from Sunday. The KOR bearings simply blew up. Fortunately, only a little aluminum got to the bearings/journals/other wear surfaces. Sad, because the PROPER bearings were readily available. I bought Schaefler Group German made SCH 1212 INAs for just $8.24 Canadian each...all costs in, but having to drive a few miles to pick them up. The pre-A+ idler bearings are not strictly an automotive bearing AND they have been available to replace the Torrington 1212s all along. The major suppliers have done us all a disservice in sourcing cheaper, poorer quality product and offering it as suitable for use."

 

Bear in mind, I had built a 100+ 1098 with Russell Engineering pistons, RE 266S cam & faced lifters, hardened exhaust seats in an OEM 12G295 head (Graham Russell cleaned up a little under the seats), seats cut for Paul Ivey race valves, Cooper S valve springs, Keith Calver 1.4:1 steel rockers, MED damper, lightened flywheel & backing plate, orange clutch disc & spring, over a fully rebuilt CR box with cross-pin diff, standard crank that was straight, polished up std/std (shop said 'excellent crank') with centre main strap, HIF44 and Maniflow Cooper Freeflow header & twin box exhaust...the Mini was going to be driven.

 

The KOR branded idler gear bearings literally blew up on the Alaska Hwy. in Yukon, Canada.  Headed north on the Stewart-Hassiar Hwy. in the late afternoon before, I detected a very slight hissing, whisper that we could not isolate.  After I drove the TSD section out of Watson Lake my co-driver took over for the transit north.  Before we reached Johnsons Crossing, we were looking to drain the oil, remove the filter...on doing that and inserting a long magnet, I said, "We're done."  Barely 1,500 miles on the power unit.

 

After the rebuild, we traveled on a 3,000 mile return trip to Colorado with 2 mechanics in their Minis with 1275s.  The fresh 1185 pulled up the long climbs in southern Oregon & Utah in 4th while the 1275s were downshifting to 3rd.  With $16.48 Canadian total in 2 new idler gear bearings those issues were gone.

 

I raised a bit of a stink about those KOR bearings and on asking major suppliers at IMM in Bristol...none had any on offer.

 

Our collective message to the major suppliers must be 'sell us parts intended for vehicles that will be driven'.  The 'trailer queens' ought to be the minority. In the meantime, we must all help each other to ferret out the crap, call the sellers to account and identify quality replacements.

 

In the following photo, at top - one of the 2 destroyed KOR bearing cups (both the same) and below - two 1212 bearings one Torrington, one German that I removed from older gearboxes as examples

 

89598649_491655941515802_462979329560464



#12 MaximMini

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 08:01 AM

Hi Hunter,

 

Thank you very much for your input. I fully agree with you that it is up to us as a consumer to put pressure on the suppliers out there to improve parts quality. At the same time it was us consumers (or as I would like to think former generations of consumers) who asked for ever cheaper parts.

 

Having been in contact with John Guess (who supplied the gearbox rebuilt kit to me) he confirmed that he has a reliable source for the idler gear bearing as well as the layshaft needle rollers now. Parts are clearly described on his web page.

 

From MiniSpares I have received only a rather vague response until now but have asked for the bearings in question again today.



#13 Spider

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 08:30 AM

Rick,

 

Thanks for passing on your experiences here.

 

While these Bearings, that have fewer and shorter needles than the original Torringtoms,  may have claimed ratings of the same as these, that they run on the same shafts is obviously going to load the shafts themselves up more and from what I have seen of your Idler Gear, in part, it's clear that's what happened there. So, in your case here, it was a cheap pair of bearings, that some one saved less than $10 on, that ended up costing about a grand in repairs, not to mention missing out on completing your participation in the Alcan.

 

I did try the KOR Branded Wheel Bearings a few years back, the best I had from them was about 5000 km, but most went around the 2 000 km mark, one looked like it had been struck by a welder !. They really are a poor quality bearing.

 

I think most who buys parts in general, including bearings, expect them to be at least OEM Quality. If they are not, fair enough, but the suppliers should state this. We do have one local supplier who does generally do this, so at least he have some guidance and choice in the matter, but no one else seems to do it.

<Edit: I have just gone to look up KOR Bearings, and found this

 

 

Seems I'm not the only one to find their wheel bearings poor;-

http://www.theminifo...-to-avoid/     >


Edited by Moke Spider, 11 March 2020 - 08:47 AM.


#14 MaximMini

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 12:55 PM

Hi Guys,

 

With Gavin at MiniSpares having confirmed the preferred brands for the bearings, I have just placed an order with them and will report back as soon as I have the goods in hand.



#15 Rorf

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 04:59 PM

Quality always costs more, but then the job is only done once.






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