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Spark Plug Comparison: Would This Compel You To Switch?


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#31 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 07:16 AM

To quote the Dsport article:

 

"The Pulstar with PlasmaCore spark plug by Enerpulse features a high-purity ceramic capacitor that stores energy until it is ready to spark. In this configuration, a Pulstar spark plug can deliver greater and larger spark energy than a conventional spark plug. According to Pulstar, this allows for a spark with an incomprehensible peak power of up to 5 megawatts. To put this in perspective, 1 megawatt can power up to 1,000 houses. This is an incredible amount of energy that is said to break apart the gaseous atoms of the air-fuel mixture into a plasma state which results in a more instantaneous ignition, leading to a quicker and more complete burn. In theory, this method of combustion should result not only in increased efficiency in the ignition and fuel systems but also make way for more power to be generated during the power stroke."

 

To quote David Vizard:

 

"So as to put everything into perspective, let's start off with a simple basic ground rule as far as ignition systems and the Series 'A' engine are concerned.  The Series 'A' engine, what ever type it may be, is not overly sensitive in the ignition department.  As long as the spark is adequate to fire up the mixture effectively no further improvement in this area will be necessary.  A super spark which falls into the artificial lightening category, does very little to actually increase the power output."

 

He basically says that an adequate spark is sufficient for maximum power output on a series 'A' and goes on to talk about how important spark timing is and that this is what it is better to throw money and effort towards improving.

 

He does say however that it's worth worth increasing the spark intensity if you wish to run very lean part throttle economy mixtures as a bigger spark can ignite leaner mixtures although he still puts a big emphasis on the ignition timing.  It'd be interesting to see a specific fuel consumption test on a series 'A' with the Pulstar plugs to see if there's any improvement in this area.  Vizard reckons a relatively small gain of 2 to 3% in economy can be achieved with a better spark.  (That would be with the mixture and timing optimised, not by just changing the plugs.)

 

Another thought regarding the Dsport article.  If the use of the Pulstar plugs results in a "more instantaneous ignition, leading to a quicker and more complete burn" then the ignition timing of the vehicle will no longer be optimal as the timing will now effectively be advanced from where it was.



#32 sonscar

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 09:51 AM

Years ago a capacitor type thing was sold to fit into the coil lead to boost spark energy to massive new levels,it was instantly taken up by all the major manufacturers(not)Much as I like classic cars the engines are only a few steps more developed than an anvil in many cases.I find the single most factor in improving economy is the driver.Steve..

#33 PoolGuy

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 10:19 AM

What’s happened to Dusky, I thought he had evidence of the benefits of super plugs?

#34 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 12:02 PM

I'll try to only post 1 comment on this :

I've tested loads of plugs, and not in the car but on the dyno.
If people think a plug is just a plug, and a spark is just a spark then they're wrong. Free to believe what they want, but wrong anyway. ;)
A simple plug change makes some engines not even need a choke from cold.
Its funny how some try to fit every last performance enhancing product, but think a plug cant be improved upon.

 

 

What’s happened to Dusky, I thought he had evidence of the benefits of super plugs?

I'm particularly interested in the plugs which could save me needing to use the choke, they'd save a lot of cold start bore wear.



#35 evoderby

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 02:36 PM

Vizard dyno run with plasma ignition:

 

 

 

Another Vizard quote:

“In practice, we find that four-valve, pent-roof engines usually respond to a [plasma or capacitor induced] super spark to the tune of 2 to 3 percent. That said, I did find a 5-percent increase on a four-valve Ford 4.6 Mod Motor—sometimes those bigger gains are there. Engines with big bores (big blocks of almost any make) also usually respond well because a more-aggressive light-off leads to a faster initial flame-front travel, and that’s a good thing.”

 

But in all fairness he indeed mentions the A-series engine to be less dependent on what spark you throw at it. Can’t blame the guy for being wrong for once in his life though ;-)



#36 evoderby

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 02:49 PM

And another dyno pull with Pulstars:

 

https://youtu.be/3PPXLFYCNCc

 

As you can see they started off quite sceptic and whilst after finding 7HP on a 380HP engine they had to admit that snake oil it is not, they conclude that there are cheaper alternatives to gain such power.


Edited by evoderby, 04 May 2020 - 02:57 PM.


#37 Dusky

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 06:05 PM


I'll try to only post 1 comment on this :

I've tested loads of plugs, and not in the car but on the dyno.
If people think a plug is just a plug, and a spark is just a spark then they're wrong. Free to believe what they want, but wrong anyway. ;)
A simple plug change makes some engines not even need a choke from cold.
Its funny how some try to fit every last performance enhancing product, but think a plug cant be improved upon.

What’s happened to Dusky, I thought he had evidence of the benefits of super plugs?

I'm particularly interested in the plugs which could save me needing to use the choke, they'd save a lot of cold start bore wear.
Ive posted the data on here before. A little search should bring it up. If I recall right I replied to a certain "BOB" on here.

Best plugs I tested were brisk multisparks. Turning your ancient A series ignition system into an effective multi (3) spark ignition system. Quite handy after fitting a weber with the choke removed!
But as I've said before, I try to not post too much on this subject as it tires me too much to argue with naysayers who haven't even seen a dyno in real life. ( not directed at you by the way). Not good for my already way too high blood pressure. :)


Oh, and for the people talking about vizard, take a close look at the spark plug wires on his yellow book cover (3rd edition)

Edited by Dusky, 04 May 2020 - 06:50 PM.


#38 PoolGuy

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 07:26 PM

I'll try to only post 1 comment on this :

I've tested loads of plugs, and not in the car but on the dyno.
A simple plug change makes some engines not even need a choke from cold.
 

 

Ive posted the data on here before. A little search should bring it up. If I recall right I replied to a certain "BOB" on here.

Best plugs I tested were brisk multisparks. Turning your ancient A series ignition system into an effective multi (3) spark ignition system. Quite handy after fitting a weber with the choke removed!
But as I've said before, I try to not post too much on this subject as it tires me too much to argue with naysayers who haven't even seen a dyno in real life.


 

I found your thread where you discussed plugs with Bob, what I can't find are your dyno comparisons with 'normal' plugs. Could you provide a link to them as a "little search" brings up lots of posts from you about plugs? I'm genuinely interested in actual facts, I'm less interested in the results of expectation bias. Thanks.



#39 sonscar

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 07:35 PM

I would imagine to reap the full benefits you would need fully mappable sequential coil on plug ignition to remove any potential dissy wear and less than optimum spark timing,food for thought?Steve..

#40 Dusky

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 08:48 PM


I'll try to only post 1 comment on this :

I've tested loads of plugs, and not in the car but on the dyno.
A simple plug change makes some engines not even need a choke from cold.

Ive posted the data on here before. A little search should bring it up. If I recall right I replied to a certain "BOB" on here.

Best plugs I tested were brisk multisparks. Turning your ancient A series ignition system into an effective multi (3) spark ignition system. Quite handy after fitting a weber with the choke removed!
But as I've said before, I try to not post too much on this subject as it tires me too much to argue with naysayers who haven't even seen a dyno in real life.



I found your thread where you discussed plugs with Bob, what I can't find are your dyno comparisons with 'normal' plugs. Could you provide a link to them as a "little search" brings up lots of posts from you about plugs? I'm genuinely interested in actual facts, I'm less interested in the results of expectation bias. Thanks.

Weird. Mind, its been a while. Ill send you some files when Im back at my patents house.
You mostly see an improvement in low down torque and a flatter torque curve. The 1-2 bhp gained at the top end ismt enough for me to be meaningfull. The lack of needing choke alone is complimentary with the dyno results. Iirc they have/had some dyno results on their site too. And some (motorbike?) Magazine tested them too. I only tested them after a while. Got them to send me a set for free.

#41 PoolGuy

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 08:23 AM

I’ve seen the dyno runs on their site and quite frankly I don’t see it as any more than advertising. What I’d like to see is a real life comparison comparing a number of ‘normal’ plugs and a number of ‘super’ plugs with the fuelling and timing optimised each time. Sadly it’s never going to happen because of the costs involved for very little gain. The results in a modified a series add in even more problems as they’re all slightly different and each engine will need very slightly different settings to reach its maximum potential. An NGK ***7 maybe spot on for my engine while another may perform a few bhp better with a similar temp rated Champion, that doesn’t mean that the Champion plugs are better, just that they’re better suited in one particular application. It’s one of those unanswerable questions which often provides heated and amusing debate in pubs and on forums. It’s probably why Ian and AC don’t bother getting involved.

#42 Dusky

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 10:37 AM

I’ve seen the dyno runs on their site and quite frankly I don’t see it as any more than advertising. What I’d like to see is a real life comparison comparing a number of ‘normal’ plugs and a number of ‘super’ plugs with the fuelling and timing optimised each time. Sadly it’s never going to happen because of the costs involved for very little gain. The results in a modified a series add in even more problems as they’re all slightly different and each engine will need very slightly different settings to reach its maximum potential. An NGK ***7 maybe spot on for my engine while another may perform a few bhp better with a similar temp rated Champion, that doesn’t mean that the Champion plugs are better, just that they’re better suited in one particular application. It’s one of those unanswerable questions which often provides heated and amusing debate in pubs and on forums. It’s probably why Ian and AC don’t bother getting involved.


Thing is, on a carb, your fuelling will never be perfect. That's one of the reasons I like those plugs so much, they ignite the fuel 3 times and in the right spot ( just because it's easier to spark there).
There has been some study done regarding this , far better studies than I've done .
Conclusion was that single ground strap or surface discharge plugs were the best. ( they didnt test a brisk type multispark, but to me it's a an extended tip surface discharge plug) . You ll love it. :)

https://www.scienced...090447912000883

#43 mini13

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 11:55 AM

whats ignites the fuel 3 times?



#44 PoolGuy

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 02:05 PM


Thing is, on a carb, your fuelling will never be perfect. That's one of the reasons I like those plugs so much, they ignite the fuel 3 times and in the right spot ( just because it's easier to spark there).
There has been some study done regarding this , far better studies than I've done .
Conclusion was that single ground strap or surface discharge plugs were the best. ( they didnt test a brisk type multispark, but to me it's a an extended tip surface discharge plug) . You ll love it. :)

https://www.scienced...090447912000883

 

to be honest most of that science article is way beyond me. What isn't beyond me is the simple physics that say that a spark can only be in one place. All this talk of multiple sparks sounds crazy, if a pic I taken at a normal shutter speed it will show multiple sparks (advertising pics), but taken with a very fast shutter speed it will show just one spark (reality). I'm also not sure how you can ignite the fuel 3 times in the same spot? 

 

I've had a look at F1 plugs and they're nothing more than a surface discharge style, and they only show one spark. I'd expect F1 (and most other racers) to use the best available? Back in the day we only ever used NGK plugs, if something better was available it would have soon swept through the paddock, but that never happened. Swiftune only sell NGK plugs, MED too, and both of them love to sell fancy stuff if they can. 



#45 evoderby

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 03:20 PM

PoolGuy please stick to your NGK’s....case closed.






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