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#1 mvahora

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 06:58 AM

hi guys, 

 

simple question, does anyone know how hot the water/radiater coolant temperature gets to in a mini. Note that mine is a 1310cc modified motor with 285 Cam 1.5 rockers and a modified head etc.

 

In general i know normal operating engine temperatures are within a range of 195 to 220 degrees Fahrenheit. does this apply to my motor?

 

Thanks in advance


Edited by mvahora, 21 May 2020 - 01:09 AM.


#2 nicklouse

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 07:55 AM

Really it will be no different.

 

yes a bigger engine with a performance cam will produce more heat as it makes more power. 
 

but most Mini radiators are able to cope. And you should have a suitable thermostat in to regulate the temp.

 

why do you ask?



#3 mab01uk

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 01:13 PM

You might find these articles linked below by Keith Calver, on Mini coolant and oil temperature of interest.

 

"Maximum power is usually generated from A-series engines at 70 – 75 degrees C (160 to 170 degrees F). The main problem with this on a road car is the oil is unlikely to get hot enough for maximum performance – the results outlined previously. Another being that the heater (where needed) will be grossly inefficient. So, excluding race-cars, the optimum temperature to aim for is 85 to 90 degrees C (185 to 194 degrees F)."

Cooling - Controlling coolant temperature:-

https://www.calverst...nt-temperature/

 

"Optimum performance, for both economy and power, is achieved at temperatures around 100-107 degrees C (210-225 degrees F). Up to 120 degrees C (250 degrees F) is OK if a decent oil is used, but getting a little warm. Some engine builders believe oil should be kept around 80 degrees C (175 degrees F) to keep things ‘safe’. This simply is not high enough for best performance. The biggest problem is actually measuring the running temperature in a Mini. You need to assess the mean oil temperature measured in the gearbox (sump temperature). Extremely difficult to do considering there’s no ‘natural’ position to mount the sensor."

Lubrication - Temperature critical:-

https://www.calverst...ature-critical/


Edited by mab01uk, 18 May 2020 - 01:18 PM.


#4 mvahora

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Posted 19 May 2020 - 03:50 AM

Really it will be no different.

 

yes a bigger engine with a performance cam will produce more heat as it makes more power. 
 

but most Mini radiators are able to cope. And you should have a suitable thermostat in to regulate the temp.

 

why do you ask?

 

Sorry i should have mentioned reason for asking. 

 

Im doing a custom heater build and will be installing a motorised ball valve to replace the manual heater pull operated valve. 

 

I needed to know the temperature passing through the valve so i can determine which valve i should purchase. 

 

On this topic my other question is should i also install a bypass valve prior to the new heater motorised valve so that when the valve for the heater is closed the water is still circulating through the motor only. 



#5 timmy850

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Posted 19 May 2020 - 04:38 AM

It depends on how the coolant flow is routed.

For example on my car the coolant out of the top of the head is hot and it goes through the heater, cools a little, and then goes back into the block via the lower radiator hose. If I was to stop the flow with a tap/valve it means it stops the flow completely. If you diverted the coolant past the heater you’d have hot coolant going straight back into the block and not cooling the engine at all

#6 Moke Spider

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Posted 19 May 2020 - 05:15 AM

 

Sorry i should have mentioned reason for asking. 

 

Im doing a custom heater build and will be installing a motorised ball valve to replace the manual heater pull operated valve. 

 

I needed to know the temperature passing through the valve so i can determine which valve i should purchase. 

 

On this topic my other question is should i also install a bypass valve prior to the new heater motorised valve so that when the valve for the heater is closed the water is still circulating through the motor only. 

 

 

I've done a servo operated valve here too.

 

Being sensible and allowing for a safety margin, I'd suggest on terms of coolant temps, allow for it to reach 130 degrees C.

You can just shut off the flow, you won't need to fit a by-pass at all. That's how the standard Mini set up is.



#7 Ethel

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Posted 19 May 2020 - 07:26 AM

If it's to keep the valve from "melting" then the radiator cap is the controlling factor because it raises the boiling point so sets how hot the water can get. 

 

Useful little table - note more antifreeze also reduces the amount of heat needed to get to those temperatures, so it's not an effective tactic to improve your cooling.

 

boil101bw.JPG



#8 nicklouse

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Posted 19 May 2020 - 07:30 AM

But one thing that chart does not cover is the ability of the liquid to transfer heat. The greater the concentration the less heat it can transfer.



#9 mvahora

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Posted 19 May 2020 - 06:14 PM

It depends on how the coolant flow is routed.

For example on my car the coolant out of the top of the head is hot and it goes through the heater, cools a little, and then goes back into the block via the lower radiator hose. If I was to stop the flow with a tap/valve it means it stops the flow completely. If you diverted the coolant past the heater you’d have hot coolant going straight back into the block and not cooling the engine at all

 

Yes so out of the top of the head then into a bypass which would be a simple 3 way adaptor. with one going back towards the radiator and one continues towards  the modulating valve then onto the heater core/matrix. 

 

both will then merge again using a 3 way adaptor prior to entering the motor again. 

 

would there be any benefits in doing this and would i still get enough flow to the heater core for it to produce heat based on the psi in a mini which i believe is about 15psi?



#10 mvahora

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Posted 19 May 2020 - 06:16 PM

 

 

Sorry i should have mentioned reason for asking. 

 

Im doing a custom heater build and will be installing a motorised ball valve to replace the manual heater pull operated valve. 

 

I needed to know the temperature passing through the valve so i can determine which valve i should purchase. 

 

On this topic my other question is should i also install a bypass valve prior to the new heater motorised valve so that when the valve for the heater is closed the water is still circulating through the motor only. 

 

 

I've done a servo operated valve here too.

 

Being sensible and allowing for a safety margin, I'd suggest on terms of coolant temps, allow for it to reach 130 degrees C.

You can just shut off the flow, you won't need to fit a by-pass at all. That's how the standard Mini set up is.

 

 

 

nice how have you wired up yours?

 

im thinking of buying a 4-20ma modulating  ball valve from aliexpress. however they do seem quite expensive at about 50usd. Im planning on running 12V to a potentiomter then onto a voltage to current converter which will convert the 0-15V automotive into a 4-20ma singal to proportionally control the valve. 

 

what parts did you use?



#11 Moke Spider

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Posted 19 May 2020 - 06:55 PM

 

 

 

Sorry i should have mentioned reason for asking. 

 

Im doing a custom heater build and will be installing a motorised ball valve to replace the manual heater pull operated valve. 

 

I needed to know the temperature passing through the valve so i can determine which valve i should purchase. 

 

On this topic my other question is should i also install a bypass valve prior to the new heater motorised valve so that when the valve for the heater is closed the water is still circulating through the motor only. 

 

 

I've done a servo operated valve here too.

 

Being sensible and allowing for a safety margin, I'd suggest on terms of coolant temps, allow for it to reach 130 degrees C.

You can just shut off the flow, you won't need to fit a by-pass at all. That's how the standard Mini set up is.

 

 

 

nice how have you wired up yours?

 

im thinking of buying a 4-20ma modulating  ball valve from aliexpress. however they do seem quite expensive at about 50usd. Im planning on running 12V to a potentiomter then onto a voltage to current converter which will convert the 0-15V automotive into a 4-20ma singal to proportionally control the valve. 

 

what parts did you use?

 

 

I used a Servo from a Remote Control kit and a Driver for it. The Servo operated a Ball Valve, that I'd modified a little so it needed less effort to operate.

 

ErTgEEE.jpg

 

Since doing this some years back, I think CBS now have an electrically operated Valve for Heaters.



#12 Ethel

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Posted 19 May 2020 - 10:55 PM

Simplicity: a solenoid valve with a thermostatic switch in the passenger compartment or expelled air to control it.



#13 nicklouse

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Posted 19 May 2020 - 11:15 PM

loads of electrically operated valves on modern cars that you could just fit.

as per the lower part here

zH6SpAv.jpg


part number

r3wDC0H.jpg


 



#14 mvahora

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Posted 20 May 2020 - 11:15 AM

loads of electrically operated valves on modern cars that you could just fit.

as per the lower part here

zH6SpAv.jpg

part number

r3wDC0H.jpg

 

 

 

so the question i have is will it be okay for me to have a bypass valve continuously open at all times?  If the bypass is always open will there be enough hot water flow into the heater core/matrix when i need it (when i turn on the heater and the electric modulating valve opens? 

 

or do you think its better if i have the ability to close the bypass valve when needed?



#15 nicklouse

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Posted 20 May 2020 - 11:20 AM

Makes little difference.

 

the mini had a tap. You want hot air open it and hot water flowed into the heater.

 

the metro had continuous flow of hot water but had flaps in the heater unit to bypass the air flow from the heater for cool air.

 

the MPi was slightly different in that it was like the mini in that you had to open a tap to let the hot water into the heater but when the tap was closed the water continued to flow but directly into the bottom hose.






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