29 replies to this topic

[Minigman]

So would you also ditch the big end lock tabs? It’s a pre A+ 1098 with standard bolts.

Which other engine lock tabs are you referring to?

Most definitely !!!

If it had any on the Main Cap Bolts, the Cam Sprocket, those in the Transfer Case, those in the Gearbox - all of them, every single one, except for those on the Ball Joints as noted above.

Thanks Chris.
What’s your thoughts on me re-torquing the big end bolts now that I’m removing the lock tabs? I thought they were a one time only stretch?

[nicklouse]

Don’t think any bolts or studs are one time use on the Mini. 
 

if they are in good shape and not been over torqued or otherwise damaged I would reuse.

[Spider]

Thanks Chris.
What’s your thoughts on me re-torquing the big end bolts now that I’m removing the lock tabs? I thought they were a one time only stretch?

 

As Nick suggests \/ - you'll be fine to go again.

 

Don’t think any bolts or studs are one time use on the Mini. 
 

if they are in good shape and not been over torqued or otherwise damaged I would reuse.

 

The only Single Use fasteners I know of are the silly head bolts there used here from the mid 60's to 74.
 

[Minigman]

Thanks chaps.

[stoneface]

Locktite is basically cyanoacrylite, ie instant/krazy glue. It sets fast once oxygen is depleted. This makes it pretty nice to use on fittings or flanged surfaces as it won't set until parts are assembled. Also any squish out to inside engine casings etc will just wash off and not clog passage ways like silicone sealants etc.
Do be aware they soften up from heating. Heat is used to remove the red type locktite fixed fastners. So using on critical fasteners that get very hot is not a great idea.

Just for clarity, super glue or cyanoacrylate is not the same as Loctite 243 or many other thread lockers.

Cyanoacrylate cures in the presence of moisture whereas 243 cures with the absence of oxygen

Hence why you always make sure the thread locker bottle still has air inside when you put the cap on, and some even have caps that breath. But if you leave the cap off cyanoacrylate it goes solid as it absorbs moisture from the atmosphere. Also why it sticks skin so well.

 

 

 

[E23TFD]

Stoneface is there with one addition for the anaerobic products need to be in contact with metal parts. Basically using red bottle Loctite are anaerobic and the different grades are for threadlocking, threadsealing, retaining, flange sealing.
243 is used and can be removed with hand tools but don’t use on threads smaller than M6. 222 can be used on the smaller threads as the off torque is lower than 243. If you want it in and not to be removed 270 is where it’s at.
For instance 270 would be for locking studs, 243 for nuts ie the joint with 270 wouldn’t break when removing the nut. Always make sure threads are clean, Loctite 7063 recommended as some cleaners can leave behind nitrates and inhibit cure. If it’s a blind hole apply the Loctite in to the hole.
Any other q’s just ask.

Edited by E23TFD, 15 October 2020 - 07:21 PM.

[IronmanG]

Stoneface is there with one addition for the anaerobic products need to be in contact with metal parts. Basically using red bottle Loctite are anaerobic and the different grades are for threadlocking, threadsealing, retaining, flange sealing.
243 is used and can be removed with hand tools but don’t use on threads smaller than M6. 222 can be used on the smaller threads as the off torque is lower than 243. If you want it in and not to be removed 270 is where it’s at.
For instance 270 would be for locking studs, 243 for nuts ie the joint with 270 wouldn’t break when removing the nut. Always make sure threads are clean, Loctite 7063 recommended as some cleaners can leave behind nitrates and inhibit cure. If it’s a blind hole apply the Loctite in to the hole.
Any other q’s just ask.

What would you use for the studs on the mk1 hknge?
Thanks in advance

[E23TFD]

Ironman can you advise what your referring to. Size of thread and material.

[Spider]

Ironman can you advise what your referring to. Size of thread and material.

 

The item he's referring to is the Door hinges on the early Minis.

 

These have a 1/4" UNF Thread in them, plated steel bolt or stud. The hinge itself, if very early, would be brass though the later ones were a cast steel. The new replacements are an aluminum and / or zinc alloy of some type.

[E23TFD]

243 would work for sure, your close to the cut off on thread size between 222 this is based purely on ensuring the boot doesn’t shear when trying to remove.
For me on any bolts on body and suspension etc 222 will do the same job as 222 in what it is intended for and that’s resisting vibration in service. The other part of using the thread lockers is that with it in the threads it stops water etc getting in and preventing corrosion filling it and making it difficult in the future. You can clean up the threads outside the joint but we all know what it’s like removing a threaded fastener when it’s cold welded itself with corrosion.

[gaspen]

Hello

 

I am before repuild rebuilding an A+ and gearbox and I almost ordered the locktab sets. Then I found this topic 

 

Question : if you apply Loctite 243 on the flywheel housing bolts (for example) do you put a normal washer below the bolt head ?

[Spider]

Hello

 

I am before repuild rebuilding an A+ and gearbox and I almost ordered the locktab sets. Then I found this topic 

 

Question : if you apply Loctite 243 on the flywheel housing bolts (for example) do you put a normal washer below the bolt head ?

 

If you were to use Loctite here, I would suggest a flat washer under the nut.

For what ever it's worth, going back a very long way now, I just use an ordinary plain nut, a flat washer and a medium grade spring washer here. It should be frowned upon for putting a flat washer under a spring washer as in theory, that reduces the spring washer's locking ability. I fit the flats so that the spring washer doesn't gouge out the alloy castings. Of the zillions I've done, I've never have any come loose. Another way to look at this is that the fasteners on the outside weren't fitted with lock tabs, but how many of these have you ever found loose ?

[Java_Green]

Hello

I am before repuild rebuilding an A+ and gearbox and I almost ordered the locktab sets. Then I found this topic

Question : if you apply Loctite 243 on the flywheel housing bolts (for example) do you put a normal washer below the bolt head ?

If you were to use Loctite here, I would suggest a flat washer under the nut.

For what ever it's worth, going back a very long way now, I just use an ordinary plain nut, a flat washer and a medium grade spring washer here. It should be frowned upon for putting a flat washer under a spring washer as in theory, that reduces the spring washer's locking ability. I fit the flats so that the spring washer doesn't gouge out the alloy castings. Of the zillions I've done, I've never have any come loose. Another way to look at this is that the fasteners on the outside weren't fitted with lock tabs, but how many of these have you ever found loose ?

I interpret it as that you do use spring washers and if so, why? I have designed and dimensioned a lot of bolt/nut interfaces and cannot work out why you would like an extra layer (or inconsistent spring) in a clamping joint. It certainly does not make the clamping force more consistent.

[Spider]

I interpret it as that you do use spring washers and if so, why? I have designed and dimensioned a lot of bolt/nut interfaces and cannot work out why you would like an extra layer (or inconsistent spring) in a clamping joint. It certainly does not make the clamping force more consistent.

 

 

Same reason they are used by many millions, including BMC / Leyland / Rover, in zillions of joints.

Taken from the RS Webpage;-

" The primary purpose of spring washers is to provide tension and preload in a joint assembly. This helps to maintain clamping force and prevent loosening or loss of tension due to vibration, thermal cycling, or other factors."

(the bolding here is theirs, not mine https://uk.rs-online...-washers-guide  )

 

I have a fair bit of faith in the methods I use. To get an idea where I'm coming from in saying that, follow this thread;-

https://www.theminif...twice-in-mokes/

[Java_Green]

I interpret it as that you do use spring washers and if so, why? I have designed and dimensioned a lot of bolt/nut interfaces and cannot work out why you would like an extra layer (or inconsistent spring) in a clamping joint. It certainly does not make the clamping force more consistent.

Same reason they are used by many millions, including BMC / Leyland / Rover, in zillions of joints.

Taken from the RS Webpage;-

" The primary purpose of spring washers is to provide tension and preload in a joint assembly. This helps to maintain clamping force and prevent loosening or loss of tension due to vibration, thermal cycling, or other factors."

I do know that! The question is if it really works. The sum off all clamped parts stiffness together with the pretension is what makes up the clamping force. How much of the specified torque that actually ends up as clamping force is highly dependent on settlement and friction in interacting surfaces and threads. More interfaces makes more settlement and more friction, i.e. less wrench torque ends up as clamped force. On top of this is the uncertainty in what the friction really is in each of these interacting surfaces. To cut it short, more clamped parts gives a larger portion of uncertainties and a larger variation in resulting clamping force (even though assuming strictly cleaned surfaces and threads).
So, I am not convinced that a spring washer (with a highly unlinear stiffness characteristic) will (without doubt) contribute to an initial clamping force that is larger than external load due to normal operation.