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Brake An Battery Cable Inside Car?


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#1 mini-geek

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 08:10 PM

I'm going to be running the brake pipe and battery cable through the inside of the car, assuming that's permitted in MSA regs (cars not used in competition but I like to build to spec for future proofing)

I take it the fuel line remains on the outside as it would normally?

Do people just run a copper kunifer (spelling?) Pipe through the interior with bulkhead fittings at each end?

#2 nicklouse

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 08:15 PM

You can run everything through the car just read the regs, you can download the latest blue book from the MSA web page.

 

you will need bulkhead connectors for brake and fuel. You can also get them for the electrics but a good grommet is ok. VW do some good ones.

 

brake can be flexy or ridged just make sure it is ok as per the regs. 
 

fuel if flexy has to be steel braided and no jubilee clips etc



#3 Shooter63

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 09:59 PM

Personally I would run the brake pipe in kunifer if allowed, i say if allowed, as a family member has just built a group 4 mk2 escort and I'm pretty sure he had to run the internal brake pipes in flexy which to me is a bit weird for this simple reason, anything flexible with pressure put through it will want to straighten before transfering the pressure, for it to work well at all you would need to keep the run as straight as possible and clamp it every few inches to try and stop the movement.

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#4 nicklouse

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 10:03 PM

Personally I would run the brake pipe in kunifer if allowed, i say if allowed, as a family member has just built a group 4 mk2 escort and I'm pretty sure he had to run the internal brake pipes in flexy which to me is a bit weird for this simple reason, anything flexible with pressure put through it will want to straighten before transfering the pressure, for it to work well at all you would need to keep the run as straight as possible and clamp it every few inches to try and stop the movement.

Shooter

He will not have read the rules correctly. If MSA regulated.



#5 nicklouse

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 10:17 PM

Mmmm looks like the blue book is no longer available to download.



#6 Cooperman

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 10:41 PM

On my rally cars I have run the lines inside as folows:

 

The brake line runs from the rear pressure limiting valve (on the Mk.1) through the rear heel board and along the LH side of the central tunnel. It is in kunifer and held in place with P-clips. It runs up the front bulkhead and into the engine bay just below lower parcel shelf level. Where it parsses through the bulkheads it is uncased in a short piece of rubber tube and bonded in using 'JB Weld'.

 

Fuel line runs from the T piece at the twin rear-mounted Facet pumps and uses normal steel fuel pipe. Again it runs up aht LH side of the tunnel, but about 1/2" clear of the brake pipe. Bonding at the bulkheads is again in a rubber hose sleeve and bonding. P-clips are again used to hold it in place.

 

Battery lead runs through bulkheads again with rubber sleeving and runs up the RH side of the central tunnel. Slightly larger P-clips secure it. I fit an FIA battery master switch in between the seats, so that driver & navigator can both reach it easily, where the original cars had the starter button, then up the bulkhead on about the centre line, then across to the right under the lower edge of the parcel shelf and through the bulkhead near the master cylinders. I create a 12 volt master terminal using an exhaust 'cotton reel' just outboard of the master cylinders and all the electrical services come off of that. It has a rubber cover over it for safety.

 

I have never had any scrutineering issues in very many events.



#7 Shooter63

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 06:28 AM

Personally I would run the brake pipe in kunifer if allowed, i say if allowed, as a family member has just built a group 4 mk2 escort and I'm pretty sure he had to run the internal brake pipes in flexy which to me is a bit weird for this simple reason, anything flexible with pressure put through it will want to straighten before transfering the pressure, for it to work well at all you would need to keep the run as straight as possible and clamp it every few inches to try and stop the movement.

Shooter

He will not have read the rules correctly. If MSA regulated.

If I remember right, it was the fact that it was a new build car not an old car being resurrected, it seemed weird to me and the only blue book I have is from around 30 years ago, so no use what so ever, I just presumed he knew what he was talking about as he used to work for the Ford works rally team but as I said solid lines make more sense just for the physics involved

Shooter

#8 GraemeC

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 09:23 AM

I wouldn't use bulkhead connectors for fuel - there should be no joints in the cabin space.

Take the pipe through the bulkheads as per Cooperman, suitably protected.  I have seen fire rated compression glands used to pass the pipes through with good effect.



#9 nicklouse

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 10:54 AM

I wouldn't use bulkhead connectors for fuel - there should be no joints in the cabin space.

Take the pipe through the bulkheads as per Cooperman, suitably protected.  I have seen fire rated compression glands used to pass the pipes through with good effect.

You can as long as they are screw fixing.



#10 nicklouse

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 11:07 AM

 

 

Personally I would run the brake pipe in kunifer if allowed, i say if allowed, as a family member has just built a group 4 mk2 escort and I'm pretty sure he had to run the internal brake pipes in flexy which to me is a bit weird for this simple reason, anything flexible with pressure put through it will want to straighten before transfering the pressure, for it to work well at all you would need to keep the run as straight as possible and clamp it every few inches to try and stop the movement.

Shooter

He will not have read the rules correctly. If MSA regulated.

If I remember right, it was the fact that it was a new build car not an old car being resurrected, it seemed weird to me and the only blue book I have is from around 30 years ago, so no use what so ever, I just presumed he knew what he was talking about as he used to work for the Ford works rally team but as I said solid lines make more sense just for the physics involved

Shooter

 

If you want a copy I have last years as a PDF that I downloaded from the MSA page that I can send you.



#11 GraemeC

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 11:20 AM

Does this work:

https://www.motorspo...arbook-2021.pdf

 

(not sure if you need to be a member/licence holder to access it)


Edited by GraemeC, 05 January 2021 - 11:20 AM.


#12 nicklouse

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 11:30 AM

Does this work:

https://www.motorspo...arbook-2021.pdf

 

(not sure if you need to be a member/licence holder to access it)

Nice one. I could not find any yesterday.



#13 Shooter63

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 06:49 PM

Personally I would run the brake pipe in kunifer if allowed, i say if allowed, as a family member has just built a group 4 mk2 escort and I'm pretty sure he had to run the internal brake pipes in flexy which to me is a bit weird for this simple reason, anything flexible with pressure put through it will want to straighten before transfering the pressure, for it to work well at all you would need to keep the run as straight as possible and clamp it every few inches to try and stop the movement.

Shooter

He will not have read the rules correctly. If MSA regulated.

If I remember right, it was the fact that it was a new build car not an old car being resurrected, it seemed weird to me and the only blue book I have is from around 30 years ago, so no use what so ever, I just presumed he knew what he was talking about as he used to work for the Ford works rally team but as I said solid lines make more sense just for the physics involved

Shooter
If you want a copy I have last years as a PDF that I downloaded from the MSA page that I can send you.

No real point he died of covid 19 a few weeks ago

Shooter

#14 Trissy B

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Posted 28 September 2021 - 12:56 PM

On my rally cars I have run the lines inside as folows:

 

The brake line runs from the rear pressure limiting valve (on the Mk.1) through the rear heel board and along the LH side of the central tunnel. It is in kunifer and held in place with P-clips. It runs up the front bulkhead and into the engine bay just below lower parcel shelf level. Where it parsses through the bulkheads it is uncased in a short piece of rubber tube and bonded in using 'JB Weld'.

 

Fuel line runs from the T piece at the twin rear-mounted Facet pumps and uses normal steel fuel pipe. Again it runs up aht LH side of the tunnel, but about 1/2" clear of the brake pipe. Bonding at the bulkheads is again in a rubber hose sleeve and bonding. P-clips are again used to hold it in place.

 

Battery lead runs through bulkheads again with rubber sleeving and runs up the RH side of the central tunnel. Slightly larger P-clips secure it. I fit an FIA battery master switch in between the seats, so that driver & navigator can both reach it easily, where the original cars had the starter button, then up the bulkhead on about the centre line, then across to the right under the lower edge of the parcel shelf and through the bulkhead near the master cylinders. I create a 12 volt master terminal using an exhaust 'cotton reel' just outboard of the master cylinders and all the electrical services come off of that. It has a rubber cover over it for safety.

 

I have never had any scrutineering issues in very many events.

 

Hi Cooperman - thanks for this description I think it is exactly what I want to do. I am going to pass the battery, fuel and brake lines all the way through the cab with no joints at all. Didn't like the look of the bulkhead glands - if there is a cabin leak on it surely it defeats the point?!

 

Do you have the rubber pipe tight fitting or a little loose and use sealant? A picture would be really helpful if you could?

 

The other alternative I thought of was to JB Weld in a short length of metal pipe. Pass the line through and possibly seal with a fireproof sealant. Not sure if this is better though, maybe the rubber help soften any where on the line. Many thanks.



#15 Cooperman

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Posted 29 September 2021 - 03:47 PM

With a correct size rubber pipe and JB Weld it makes a firm and safe seal. Make sure the pipe is long enough to have a good length either side of the bulkhead. 






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