38 replies to this topic

[mark205gti]

I've been on the lookout for a mk1 cooper or cooper s, ideally with matching engine numbers. I've been pondering this machine for a while but don't want to underpay due to not being an original s and not having the original 998 engine. What is everyone thoughts on the ongoing value of this car and if it would be considered a collectible in the future - As I would like to use it for more of a sunday/show driver as well as hopefully a bit of an investment? What value would this hold in the UK?

 

Is it acceptable that it did seem to have s badges on the front and rear added on? Straight cut gears are a bit of a pain.

 

I would want to make sure it is still the original cooper chassis. Would it have had twin tanks from the factory? 

 

Specs:

1967 Austin Mini Cooper Mark I

runs a Cooper S motor, bored to 1380 cc.

Big valve head.

Cooper S gearbox and diff.

Twin tanks.

A Plus Block/Flat Top Pistons/300 degree Lynn Rogers Camshaft and conrods. Rockers/Dellorto 45mm carb.

Pipercross Filters.

A Series remote gearbox with four synchro, straight cut,

close ratio quick shift and reverse lockout.

Quaife limited slip diff 3.75/1 final drive.

Sump guard.

Exhaust-LCB free flow maniflow.

Ajustable Koni shocks.

 

I assume its been changed to dry cone suspension and 7.5" brakes.

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[nicklouse]

I would not start with that as an investment. Little is original. Loads of filler added where it should not be. Incorrect panels fitted. Big hole cut in bulkhead. Is it even an S engine.  

Edited by nicklouse, 22 January 2021 - 01:26 AM.

[Spider]

Would it have had twin tanks from the factory? 

 

Specs:

Big valve head.

 

runs a Cooper S motor, bored to 1380 cc.

 

A Plus Block/Flat Top Pistons/300 degree Lynn Rogers Camshaft and conrods. Rockers/Dellorto 45mm carb.

 

 

Cooper S gearbox and diff.

 

A Series remote gearbox with four synchro, straight cut,

 

Sorry, I've picked the list apart and re-laided it out.

 

Twin Tanks - Coopers never had twin tanks, though in the dark recesses of my mind, I * think * it was offered as an option. Cooper S's did, after about 67 / 68, up to that time, it was an option.

Big Valve Head - so it doesn't sound like a Cooper S Head, probably a 1275 head of one type or another with bigger valves fitted.

 

Block / Engine - in the first breath it says it's a Cooper S Motor, then later it says it's an A+ Block. It's one or the other but can't be both. It doesn't run a Cooper s cam and Doesn't have Cooper S Rods (and I'd say, doesn't have a Cooper S Crank)

 

Gearbox - It maybe a Remote Shift and 4 Synchro but beyond that there's nothing Cooper S about it, though remote 4 Synchro boxes were used in other cars.

 

 

My own view is that if they can even get these basic facts right and / or 'twist' /'play' on words and names, then they are not looking too honest or good even before looking at the car. Then looking at the pics, it's been quite messed about with though it does present OK. I can't tell from those pics if it does actually have an A+ Block. It also has wheel arch extensions, which it wouldn't have had originally. I feel, even if it is a Cooper Body in this state, it's only worth ordinary Mini money that would have similar mods, certainly not high money and nor would it be an investment like a Cooper or Cooper S would be.

[floormanager]

why has it got a rad inner wing on the clutch side?

[GraemeC]

A series block looking at the alternator mounting

RH inner wing could be a foreign market thing - it’s not simply a LH one flipped over.

Edited by GraemeC, 22 January 2021 - 07:08 AM.

[mark205gti]

Interesting. Thanks for your input and investigation. I assumed because it was an 11 stud head then it was an s block. But I suppose you can always drill it in. I might see if they have the engine number (even though it looks like the plate is off.

Does the Delorto need bulkhead mods? It still had the centre binnacle from the other pic.

And about the radiator inner wing on the other side: I think I have seen this on other minis. Maybe it’s a NZ build version?

But I guess in summary it’s as you say, it’s just worth it as a tidy fast mini and not as a Cooper or s. It does look pretty good and would be good for some hill climbs and short rally’s (with ear muffs).

Asking price is $35k NZ so about 19GBP?

[blacktulip]

I think you can get a more honest cooper for that money. £19k is a good budget

[Spider]

Asking price is $35k NZ so about 19GBP?

 

For that money, you could get a fairly original and in good order Clubman GT and change.

[mark205gti]

Cool. Thanks for the direction. Definitely makes sense.

[nicklouse]

Interesting. Thanks for your input and investigation. I assumed because it was an 11 stud head then it was an s block.

But any block and head can easily be modified to look like a S 10 stud and one bolt head.

 

The 11 stud term is actually incorrect.

 

it may be an S head and it may be a S block but the head will have a set of numbers stamped on it  and the block will have tapped covers on the back. 
 

[floormanager]

This is the back of an S block. Tappet covers
 20201227_144029.jpg   49.5K   10 downloads

[whistler]

This is the back of an S block. Tappet covers
20201227_144029.jpg

I believe some of the last mk3 S engines used the 1300GT solid block.

[floormanager]

 

This is the back of an S block. Tappet covers
20201227_144029.jpg

I believe some of the last mk3 S engines used the 1300GT solid block.

 

I've got a thick flange replacement BL S engine from about 1974 and that has tappet covers.  Checked engine numbers and yes, some MK3s did have solid block:=

1275 cc
Solid wall block with no tappet chest covers
12G/Ta/H        ADO17 shape Wolseley, Riley, MG & Vanden Plas fitted with S conrods
12H379           1275GT with dynamo, negative earth, electric fuel pump and remote gearbox
12H380           1275GT with alternator, negative earth, electric fuel pump and remote  gearbox
12H389           1275GT with dynamo, negative earth, mechanical fuel pump and remote gearbox
12H390            1275GT with alternator, negative earth, mechanical fuel pump and remote gearbox
12H706            1275GT alternator, negative earth, mechanical fuel pump and rod change gearbox
12H397            Cooper S Mk3 with dynamo and negative earth
12H398            Cooper S Mk3 with alternator and negative earth
12H/-/               Austin 1300 ADO16 & Allegro
12H610/635     Innocenti Mini with duplex cam drive gears and 11-stud head
12H719/832     Innocenti Mini with simplex cam drive gears and 11-stud head

 

Edited by floormanager, 22 January 2021 - 07:31 PM.

[whistler]

 

 

This is the back of an S block. Tappet covers
20201227_144029.jpg

I believe some of the last mk3 S engines used the 1300GT solid block.

 

I've got a thick flange replacement BL S engine from about 1974 and that has tappet covers.

 

Could well be a reconditioned old unit.

[mark205gti]

Ok, well I should at least find out if it is an s block by asking about the tappet covers and checking that it isn’t just 12g940 head.