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Cellulose Paint


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#1 bangermadness08

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Posted 19 October 2021 - 07:24 AM

hi,

I've painted my mini before with cellulose, and as it was my first time I learnt alot of dos and don't along the way. a few yrs have past and want to go back and give it a fresh paint. it'll be a home job, I know you'll never achieve the best unless you go to the best but I like the idea of everything done by myself.

I've found cellulose paint can chip or scratches easily without a clear coat, most high gloss says no clear coat required but has anyone gone qgausnt this and stuck a few layers over the base coat, and what was the outcome

#2 gaspen

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Posted 19 October 2021 - 03:00 PM

With additional clear coats above the base coat you'll get more UV resistance also. It is true that no clear coat required, but nothing forbids it  :proud:

 

The guy who painted my car adviced me to apply some clear coat above the acrylic base and I did not regret it.

 

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#3 jonlad

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 10:15 AM

Silly question from an absolute car painting newbie, do you flat/polish the cellulose/acrylic before applying the clear?



#4 gaspen

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 05:29 PM

Silly question from an absolute car painting newbie, do you flat/polish the cellulose/acrylic before applying the clear?

 

As I know they used to polish the clear coat only



#5 Daz1968

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 06:15 PM

If you want to use a clear coat then I would use base coat paint rather than cellulose, 



#6 sonscar

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 06:26 PM

If you are over painting with clear you must flat the previous surface.Poor adhesion will result.Steve..

#7 Midas Mk1

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 08:20 PM

If you want to use a clear coat then I would use base coat paint rather than cellulose,

This,
if you flat you’ll have sanding marks. We sprayed my dads midas in base and 1k upol smart clear due to spraying in a carport (i’m safety concious)

#8 Vanman20

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 09:51 PM

Clear over cellulose isn't a good idea.
For a start what clear would you use ? 1k clear is utter garbage.
If you use 2k clear then you should use basecoat not celly.
I used cellulose when I started out in the trade and we never put clear over it.
Just so you're sure on your terminology,basecoat and cellulose are 2 entirely different products

#9 bluedragon

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Posted 10 November 2021 - 06:37 AM

It is fine to clear coat cellulose - nearly every metallic color made is intended to be clear coated, so this is a standard procedure.

 

However, the durability of a cellulose-based clear coat is no better than the base paint itself with the exception of UV inhibitors which can help protect against fading. No extra resistance to chipping or chemical/pollutant staining.

 

In some circumstances a 2K clear can be used over a cellulose\lacquer base coat, but you have to verify with the manufacturer that this is possible. The clearcoats I have seen in the past (nothing in recent memory) always stressed that a panel with cellulose\2K clear could not be spot-repaired - the entire panel has to be repainted for repair work. The cellulose below would be prone to wrinkle and peel if the 2K clear is penetrated and sanded down for repairs.

 

The cellulose needs to totally dry - unlike a 2K paint, there is no chemical linking between the layers, so the solvents in the cellulose base cannot migrate through the 2K clear to evaporate. It will likely wrinkle and peel if not completely dry. And the base should look flat, not shiny - the only grip between the 2K clear and the cellulose base is mechanical. A shiny smooth surface is hard for a topcoat to stick to, with no chemical adhesion.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if no clear manufacturer today has guidance for putting their 2K over cellulose - for the industry, cellulose is basically obsolete.

 

 

 

Dave



#10 bangermadness08

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 08:44 PM

Clear over cellulose isn't a good idea.
For a start what clear would you use ? 1k clear is utter garbage.
If you use 2k clear then you should use basecoat not celly.
I used cellulose when I started out in the trade and we never put clear over it.
Just so you're sure on your terminology,basecoat and cellulose are 2 entirely different products

cheers for that, im using celly as a paint coat. the funds for a professional paint job are just astronomical these days. I had previously given the shell 3 coats but found to chip fairly easily. im going to sand back and apply more coats another 3/4. im guessing that's the perils with celly. 

 

im learning as I go and found the mistakes first time that im going to amend this time 



#11 Vanman20

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Posted 17 November 2021 - 12:19 PM

It is fine to clear coat cellulose - nearly every metallic color made is intended to be clear coated, so this is a standard procedure.





Dave


Before base and clear became a thing metallic cellulose was available,it wasn't clearcoated.

All metallic colours are now clear coated because the the basecoats are designed to be clear coated.
Most solid colours ie non metallic are also base and clear but are often available in 2k gloss as well

#12 bluedragon

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Posted 18 November 2021 - 01:47 AM

Metallic paints have been clearcoated as soon as clear coats became available. Clear coats aren't restricted to a base/clear paint system. Pratically all single stage non-clearcoat required paint systems have a compatible clear coat available (because using clear coat is a standard application technique to blend spot repairs in with the rest of the paint.)

 

They can be clear coated as long as the manufacturer's instructions are followed (i.e. put the clear on within the allowed timeframe after base paint application.)

 

Clear coats can make metallics easier to apply, since you only need to get a thin base coat on right instead of multiple full color coats, and the clears provided UV and minor scratch protection. Custom paint finishes such as translucent candy-type paints were and are only possible with clear coats (as the clear is slightly tinted with the metallic color to give the translucent appearance.) These have been done for a long, long time (60's at least.)

 

 

Dave






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