39 replies to this topic

[PoolGuy]

Aren't Polestar the ecu manufacturer that claim to have the MPi injector sequence? I'd be interested to see where that develops, I think some of the boosted lads would too.

All the info is freely available on the website,

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[Indigo]

 

 

 

Tim, OK, I'm mad, my requirements are rather 'off beat' but the sole reason I went for this was (as mentioned) just for the Ignition side of it and what I have been after for some time was a Coil On Plug (COP) arrangement, so effectively, I have 4 coils and best but, no HT system to speak of, so deep water crossings are no longer an issue. On top of that I can see that - once I get it MAPed correctly the overall engine performance will be slightly improved as well as using less fuel. I also have the option of having 2 MAPs, each being easily selectable, so I can tune it for high and low octane fuels.

 

 

 

 

Spider, What trigger wheels are you using?  One on the crank, as well as one on the cam somwhere?  If on the cam, are you using the distributor drive, or something picking up the cam sprocket?

[Spider]

 

 

 

 

Tim, OK, I'm mad, my requirements are rather 'off beat' but the sole reason I went for this was (as mentioned) just for the Ignition side of it and what I have been after for some time was a Coil On Plug (COP) arrangement, so effectively, I have 4 coils and best but, no HT system to speak of, so deep water crossings are no longer an issue. On top of that I can see that - once I get it MAPed correctly the overall engine performance will be slightly improved as well as using less fuel. I also have the option of having 2 MAPs, each being easily selectable, so I can tune it for high and low octane fuels.

 

 

 

 

Spider, What trigger wheels are you using?  One on the crank, as well as one on the cam somwhere?  If on the cam, are you using the distributor drive, or something picking up the cam sprocket?

 

 

For now, I made a 'distributor' that has 2 chopper discs in it, one have 8 slots and the other a single slot. It's actually from one of the V8 Commodores, along with the pick up from the same. It was the guys at Haltech who suggested this, and they put me in touch with EFI Hardware, who have these parts along with many of the vehicle specific connectors etc;-

https://www.efihardware.com/

 

I actually found this trigger set up to be much better in practice than I thought it would be, as I was going to go to a crank (on the flywheel) and cam trigger (unsure on that one, possibly similar to the MPI or I was looking at something on the sprocket), but now I have the 'distributor' trigger, I'm of two minds if it's worth changing from this. Maybe if I was looking for that last 1/10 of a HP I would.

Prior to approaching Haltech, I did ask Polestar (on the back of the suggestion from Nick) if they did a COP arrangement, which at that time, they didn't and he said he had no plans to introduce such a product.

While I did have mine all fitted up for a while, for now, I've removed it until I can make time to hire a dyno (probably for a day or 2) to map it out, if I was just after performance, I could do that in a couple of hours, but that's not what I'm seeking, hence the long set up time frame.

[Steve220]

I saw polestar ecus have internal drivers/ignitors. It seems rather old hat to have it that way, most modern ECUs require external drivers due to COP, better coil pack availability and flexibility. It also takes a lot of the heat out of the ECU.

 

For my MPiT set up, i'm tempted to go COP with wasted spark (for now) until i can be certain of a cam sensor method (can't use the OEM one due to cam choice and turbo in the way).

[Spider]

For my MPiT set up, i'm tempted to go COP with wasted spark (for now) until i can be certain of a cam sensor method (can't use the OEM one due to cam choice and turbo in the way).

 

It might be more trouble than it's worth, but to put it on the table, it would be possible to fit a pick-up, like that used in the MPI, to the rocker cover and use the rise of a Rocker to sense Cam phasing. From the little I understand of this stuff, the Cam Sensor doesn't need to be accurate, just in the ball park.  If you are using an MPI Block, this next idea is no good, but it would also be possible to use a distributor and fit a pick-up in to that.
 

[Steve220]

 

For my MPiT set up, i'm tempted to go COP with wasted spark (for now) until i can be certain of a cam sensor method (can't use the OEM one due to cam choice and turbo in the way).

 

It might be more trouble than it's worth, but to put it on the table, it would be possible to fit a pick-up, like that used in the MPI, to the rocker cover and use the rise of a Rocker to sense Cam phasing. From the little I understand of this stuff, the Cam Sensor doesn't need to be accurate, just in the ball park.  If you are using an MPI Block, this next idea is no good, but it would also be possible to use a distributor and fit a pick-up in to that.
 

 

Hi Chris,

 

Not possible to use a dizzy on the MPi block. The rocker idea is a new one, however it'll need a conditioning circuit in order to make it a square wave. An idea that has floated around the turbo group is to change all but one of the cam sprocket bolts to stainless steel. Put the sensor through the back of the timing back plate right at the wheel so that as the mild steel bolt end passes, it makes a square wave. Someone has tried it to great success, however i've not physically seen the set up myself.. plus i need to see if i've got room back there with the turbo!

[PoolGuy]

I saw polestar ecus have internal drivers/ignitors. It seems rather old hat to have it that way, most modern ECUs require external drivers due to COP, better coil pack availability and flexibility. It also takes a lot of the heat out of the ECU.

I think it's fair to say that the Polestar isn't the most advanced ecu available today, but if it has what you want then it's certainly a very attractive, proven option with good back up. Also it's particularly attractive to people with A Series engines as it was developed in conjunction with a number of Miglia champions, and the main agent for Polestar is a longterm Mini racer based I Northamptonshire.

[Spider]

 The rocker idea is a new one, however it'll need a conditioning circuit in order to make it a square wave. An idea that has floated around the turbo group is to change all but one of the cam sprocket bolts to stainless steel. Put the sensor through the back of the timing back plate right at the wheel so that as the mild steel bolt end passes, it makes a square wave. Someone has tried it to great success, however i've not physically seen the set up myself.. plus i need to see if i've got room back there with the turbo!

 

Steve,

 

The signal can be passed through a couple of Schmitt Triggers to clean it up in to a nice square wave, if you aren't familiar with them, a single chip can have up to 4 of these on them and very easy to connect up - even I can do it ! You'll almost certainly find the front end input in to any ECU for just about any digital signal will already have this feature built in.

I like the idea of a Cam Sprocket based pick-up from a technical point of view, however, my reluctance to go this way is to make a set up that is oil tight and free of added vibration from the cover flexing. I'd say the smartest more here would be to use an aluminum billet type of cover, say from DSN - or do they already have something like this ?

The idea of using the Stainless bolts is clever.
 

[Steve220]

 

 The rocker idea is a new one, however it'll need a conditioning circuit in order to make it a square wave. An idea that has floated around the turbo group is to change all but one of the cam sprocket bolts to stainless steel. Put the sensor through the back of the timing back plate right at the wheel so that as the mild steel bolt end passes, it makes a square wave. Someone has tried it to great success, however i've not physically seen the set up myself.. plus i need to see if i've got room back there with the turbo!

 

Steve,

 

The signal can be passed through a couple of Schmitt Triggers to clean it up in to a nice square wave, if you aren't familiar with them, a single chip can have up to 4 of these on them and very easy to connect up - even I can do it ! You'll almost certainly find the front end input in to any ECU for just about any digital signal will already have this feature built in.

I like the idea of a Cam Sprocket based pick-up from a technical point of view, however, my reluctance to go this way is to make a set up that is oil tight and free of added vibration from the cover flexing. I'd say the smartest more here would be to use an aluminum billet type of cover, say from DSN - or do they already have something like this ?

The idea of using the Stainless bolts is clever.
 

 

Luckily Felix is running a DSN housing

 

Been busy with my own project, took the SC loom out and stripped it for parts. Next is to add a Deutsch connector in to it to connect to the haltech loom (for it to trigger the standard rover relay pack etc.) then start the tireless process of doing the main engine loom!

 

 

 

[1994JDM_mini]

 

 

 

 

,,,,,,,and fit a Haltech Elite with built in MAP sensor and fitting the air bypass for fast idle.
I am thinking of doing this but cost is about $2,000 AUD which includes the ECU, new air bypass valve, new loom and an AFR wideband sensor..

The telephone support for Haltech is first class. I found their software quite intuitive and I'm all thumbs with anything IT.

I got an Elite 550 with a basic harness, they threw in a complete set of additional plug pins and went from there. I wouldn't like to use a custom loom as the wire routing is likely not what I would like, along with additional connectors from loom to engine (so when removing the engine, it's only 1 plug) and I also standardised the loom wire colours to align with the rest of the car. While it has Injection Capabilities, I'm only using it for Ignition. I only paid around $1200.00 and that included Air and Coolant senders.

All the same, with coolant temp input, you can program the ECU using that to advance the ignition timing a few degrees when it's cold for a fast idle.

I haven't had direct experience with other brands, so I can't compare, in that regards, but I an impressed and very happy with the Haltech, not just for their support but also the way their gear is made.

How many coils do you use Chris? 2 with wasted spark? Only reason I ask is I have two coils in stock and am considering binning the Speeduino project we've been struggling with for 3 years and the most basic Haltech 550 sounds like it'll fit the bill.

 

 

Tim, OK, I'm mad, my requirements are rather 'off beat' but the sole reason I went for this was (as mentioned) just for the Ignition side of it and what I have been after for some time was a Coil On Plug (COP) arrangement, so effectively, I have 4 coils and best but, no HT system to speak of, so deep water crossings are no longer an issue. On top of that I can see that - once I get it MAPed correctly the overall engine performance will be slightly improved as well as using less fuel. I also have the option of having 2 MAPs, each being easily selectable, so I can tune it for high and low octane fuels.

 

The particular COP units I'm using are from a Toyota Corolla.

 

I should add here too that with our local Haltech Guys (which is in fact the factory), while they have been extremely helpful with the Haltech unit itself, suggesting pick up triggers, and other inputs, where it comes to specific A Series stuff, they have only ever seen 1 other and they have very limited experience there and little they could help with other than to say if I ever did want to inject, a wet manifold would be by far the easiest arrangement, though, with enough Dyno time and not too crazy cams, port injection can be done.

 

The Haltech also has a CAN Bus if you want it. I * think * that can be used for programing (?) and also outputs for external instrumentation and loggers.

 

 

I have a haltech Elite 1000 (mainly as i wanted knock strategy and a few other bits) and a basic loom. Haltech UK have been nothing but helpful, especially with my mundane questions. They have provided me with Moog's (MCM) map as a base for my set up and have said they'll remotely look over my set up prior to first start.

 

I agonised for some time between the 550 and the 1000, with the latter being desirable for the same reasons as you have, for the knock sensor. In the end, I decided to run with the 550 so as to not be overwhelmed with too much at once as this ECU stuff is new to me, but if I were to go again (and I still may), I wouldn't hesitate to go for the 1000.

Is there any chance I could get a copy of your MAP ? I'd be eternally grateful. I have dialed in a very very basic MAP based on the distributor curve and while an improvement right away, I'd like a better starting point.
 

 

Hi Chris,

 

Yeh, no worries. DM me a good email address, and i'll see what I can do.

 

Steve,

 

is there a way to share on here for those of us who might want to try it? I'm waiting on my 750 Elite to get here so I can start the install. tips and tricks would be greatly appreciated. Thanks