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This Might Put A Damper On Self Driving Cars


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#1 xrocketengineer

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 01:34 AM

If these UK lawmakers findings become the standard everywhere else, I don't think that many self driving car manufacturing companies would like to be liable for the crashes caused by their cars.   

 

https://jalopnik.com...s-sa-1848424954

 



#2 PoolGuy

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 07:42 AM

I’d be interested to know how autonomous vehicles prioritise what to avoid in the case of a collision. If there’s a pregnant lady walking and a man with a toddler, which would the vehicle be programmed to avoid, assuming that avoiding both isn’t possible.



#3 Icey

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 09:25 AM

I’d be interested to know how autonomous vehicles prioritise what to avoid in the case of a collision. If there’s a pregnant lady walking and a man with a toddler, which would the vehicle be programmed to avoid, assuming that avoiding both isn’t possible.

The point you'll get from most manufacturers is that it wouldn't get into that situation in the first place, either that or it's being unfairly compared to humans who would, in that situation, be unable to accurately make the same decision.

 

However, I think there must be some liability on the car companies for what they produce and equally they will insure against that risk.



#4 sonscar

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 10:04 AM

Factor in Fred Blogs vs large international motor company?Steve..

#5 PoolGuy

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 01:24 PM

Factor in Fred Blogs vs large international motor company?Steve..

The reality of that scenario is that it’s two insurance companies having a fight.



#6 Ethel

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 02:00 PM

 

I’d be interested to know how autonomous vehicles prioritise what to avoid in the case of a collision. If there’s a pregnant lady walking and a man with a toddler, which would the vehicle be programmed to avoid, assuming that avoiding both isn’t possible.

The point you'll get from most manufacturers is that it wouldn't get into that situation in the first place, either that or it's being unfairly compared to humans who would, in that situation, be unable to accurately make the same decision.

 

However, I think there must be some liability on the car companies for what they produce and equally they will insure against that risk.

 

 

This, there is no difference - if you have a liability you can't afford, you insure it.

 

But it's hardly surprising the ancestral home of the insurance industry came to that conclusion.



#7 Ethel

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 02:03 PM

 

Factor in Fred Blogs vs large international motor company?Steve..

The reality of that scenario is that it’s two insurance companies having a fight.

 

Fred Bloggs isn't obliged to be insured, but that's also true now.



#8 Steam

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 12:16 AM

It will end up being a **** fight between all parties with the lawyers being the only winners as usual.

#9 Tornado99

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 07:38 PM

Another thing automated driving cannot do well, predict what might be about to happen.
When a human sees a kid at road side with a ball, we perceive scenarios based on our knowledge of behaviour of children. Automated system do not do that. They simply detect objects in the path ahead. They do not "see" in the same way we do, they just compare them to large datasets they've seen before to attempt identification. They do not understand what those objects typically do and have no life experience of them.

Edited by Tornado99, 28 January 2022 - 07:39 PM.


#10 Spider

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 07:07 PM

The whole issue of liabilities has been an on going debate since there cars were first seriously suggested. Regardless of what new laws are made and introduced, as usual, it will take a few court cases to see where this dust will eventually settle.

 

 

Factor in Fred Blogs vs large international motor company?Steve..

 

The reality of that scenario is that it’s two insurance companies having a fight.

 

Actually, when it comes down to Insurance Co vs Insurance Co, they work out a deal between themselves and usually, quite quick. They have all been in the game long enough to know that it's better for each of them to take a bit of a hit than to duke it out as that eventually only costs themselves more. For them, it;s not what's right, wrong, legal or illegal, it's only about retaining as much money as they can.



#11 xrocketengineer

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 08:56 PM

I think that what it is going to happen (at least on this side of the pond) is that that car/vehicle manufactures will define a clear line between "self driving" and "driver aids" instead of the blurring of the line that they have been pushing lately. For examples: Subaru is advertising that "their cars can save your life because they can brake by themselves",  Hyundai advertise their cars that their can prevent unintentional lane changing, GMC trucks and Cadillac advertise people driving and letting go of the steering wheel, Tesla does not advertise but a lot people let their Tesla cars drive by themselves (and many end up crashing). So, they are basically selling that their cars drive themselves, which is not true. So, these capabilities will be defined as "driver aids" and therefore the driver will assume all liabilities for their use exempting the manufacturer of all liability (except when their is manufacturing defect). I can almost see all the additional "legal disclaimers" stamped all over the interior of these cars.

Then there is the "self driving" vehicle that will have no driver and just passengers. Kind of like an elevator but that travels in two (maybe three) dimensions. The passengers can not be at fault for any accident (unless they figure out how to "press all the floor buttons"). So, the manufacturer would be liable for any mishaps unless there is a third party performing the maintenance of the vehicle and these two parties would be pointing fingers at each other in the event of an accident. Right Spider?
      


Edited by xrocketengineer, 29 January 2022 - 09:01 PM.


#12 Tornado99

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 10:54 PM

Why do we not have self-driving cars undergo actual driver testing, complete with a test giver in the vehicle, just like we have to in order to get a license? Can't make correct maneuvers as instructed to do? No license. Can't handle a proper turn within a busy light controlled intersection? Too bad.  Can't perform a safe three point turn or identify a suitable spot and make a parallel park? Too bad. 


Edited by Tornado99, 29 January 2022 - 10:55 PM.


#13 Quinlan minor

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 08:37 AM

Why do we not have self-driving cars undergo actual driver testing, complete with a test giver in the vehicle, just like we have to in order to get a license? Can't make correct maneuvers as instructed to do? No license. Can't handle a proper turn within a busy light controlled intersection? Too bad.  Can't perform a safe three point turn or identify a suitable spot and make a parallel park? Too bad. 

Like that weeds out the incompetents!

The average driver, I see out on the road, can't negotiate a 2 metre width divider at less than a snail's pace or drive on their own side of the white centre-line. I wonder if the algorithms, in automated cars are set up for that.



#14 Ethel

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 10:22 AM

The whole issue of liabilities has been an on going debate since there cars were first seriously suggested. Regardless of what new laws are made and introduced, as usual, it will take a few court cases to see where this dust will eventually settle.

 

 

Factor in Fred Blogs vs large international motor company?Steve..

 

The reality of that scenario is that it’s two insurance companies having a fight.

 

Actually, when it comes down to Insurance Co vs Insurance Co, they work out a deal between themselves and usually, quite quick. They have all been in the game long enough to know that it's better for each of them to take a bit of a hit than to duke it out as that eventually only costs themselves more. For them, it;s not what's right, wrong, legal or illegal, it's only about retaining as much money as they can.

 

Half the time they're the same .  The company name on your policy is a retail operation, there's a smaller group of underwriters actually covering the risk and that risk is also underwritten by other insurers.



#15 Steam

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Posted 10 February 2022 - 07:40 AM

Just on the news here a self driving tesla has taken out another vehicle and ended up driving into various signs and off into the scenery.
If that doesn't put the kybosh on the whole driverless car deal then there is something wrong in this world.




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