25 replies to this topic

[ac427]

I know this gets asked a lot and that there are ratio calculators out there but peoples experiences with different gear sets more valuable i think.

 

 

I have a 1430cc engine with an A+ box from a Metro Turbo in my Mini Pickup. The car will be used for fast road and occasional motorway work.

 

 

I haven't driven the Pickup in years but i remember first gear being too low to be of much use.

 

Is the answer just to fit a Cooper S gear kit?

 

Should i look at changing the final drive too?

[mini13]

which S gearkit?  you dont want a 3 synchro one....   i asume you meank the mark3 "1040" gear kit.

 

 

you can get parts to swap the turbo box to those ratios, by just swaping the laygear, and 1st motion shaft, (i seem to recall some MPI's had this?)

 

turbo final drive was 3.2, so you could up that to a 3.1, I think the MPI 2.9 would be a bit tall personaly

[ac427]

which S gearkit?  you dont want a 3 synchro one....   i asume you meank the mark3 "1040" gear kit.

 

 

you can get parts to swap the turbo box to those ratios, by just swaping the laygear, and 1st motion shaft, (i seem to recall some MPI's had this?)

 

turbo final drive was 3.2, so you could up that to a 3.1, I think the MPI 2.9 would be a bit tall personaly

 

Thanks Mini13, If the gearbox was an A+ gearbox rather than the Metro Turbo box would that make much difference to the parts needed to just change the 1st gear?

[nicklouse]

 

which S gearkit?  you dont want a 3 synchro one....   i asume you meank the mark3 "1040" gear kit.

 

 

you can get parts to swap the turbo box to those ratios, by just swaping the laygear, and 1st motion shaft, (i seem to recall some MPI's had this?)

 

turbo final drive was 3.2, so you could up that to a 3.1, I think the MPI 2.9 would be a bit tall personaly

 

Thanks Mini13, If the gearbox was an A+ gearbox rather than the Metro Turbo box would that make much difference to the parts needed to just change the 1st gear?

 

The metro turbo box is an A+ box.

 

you say that first is is useless. What do you actually mean? And what final drive is actually fitted?

[ac427]

which S gearkit?  you dont want a 3 synchro one....   i asume you meank the mark3 "1040" gear kit.
 
 
you can get parts to swap the turbo box to those ratios, by just swaping the laygear, and 1st motion shaft, (i seem to recall some MPI's had this?)
 
turbo final drive was 3.2, so you could up that to a 3.1, I think the MPI 2.9 would be a bit tall personaly

 
Thanks Mini13, If the gearbox was an A+ gearbox rather than the Metro Turbo box would that make much difference to the parts needed to just change the 1st gear?

The metro turbo box is an A+ box.
 
you say that first is is useless. What do you actually mean? And what final drive is actually fitted?

Hi Nick, I think the turbo gearbox has a bigger bearing but i wasn't sure if that was the only difference?

I don't know what final drive the gearbox has, the engine and gearbox were assembled for me years ago.

The first gear comment was really to do with pulling away in first and almost straight away needing second gear. So just a bit too low in relation to the next gear.

The engine is a 1430cc so there is quite a lot of torque.

I quite like the idea of swapping first gear for a taller ratio rather than swapping the whole gear set.

I'm not sure which 4 synchro gear sets would fit the A+ box.

I guess the Cooper S gear set is out because my gearbox would have A+ flat top profile gears?

[Spider]

 

The engine is a 1430cc so there is quite a lot of torque.

I quite like the idea of swapping first gear for a taller ratio rather than swapping the whole gear set.

I'm not sure which 4 synchro gear sets would fit the A+ box.

I guess the Cooper S gear set is out because my gearbox would have A+ flat top profile gears?

 

How did you find cruising and top end speed ?

As sets, all of the 4 Synchro sets will fit in an A+ Case, even a Turbo one.

A change of 1st Gear Ratio would actually mean a complete Set change, while all '1st Gear' in all sets were the same Cog, the Laygears, 2nd and 3rd Gears and Input Gears are all different.
 

[nicklouse]

 

 

 

which S gearkit?  you dont want a 3 synchro one....   i asume you meank the mark3 "1040" gear kit.
 
 
you can get parts to swap the turbo box to those ratios, by just swaping the laygear, and 1st motion shaft, (i seem to recall some MPI's had this?)
 
turbo final drive was 3.2, so you could up that to a 3.1, I think the MPI 2.9 would be a bit tall personaly

 
Thanks Mini13, If the gearbox was an A+ gearbox rather than the Metro Turbo box would that make much difference to the parts needed to just change the 1st gear?

The metro turbo box is an A+ box.
 
you say that first is is useless. What do you actually mean? And what final drive is actually fitted?

Hi Nick, I think the turbo gearbox has a bigger bearing but i wasn't sure if that was the only difference?

I don't know what final drive the gearbox has, the engine and gearbox were assembled for me years ago.

The first gear comment was really to do with pulling away in first and almost straight away needing second gear. So just a bit too low in relation to the next gear.

The engine is a 1430cc so there is quite a lot of torque.

I quite like the idea of swapping first gear for a taller ratio rather than swapping the whole gear set.

I'm not sure which 4 synchro gear sets would fit the A+ box.

I guess the Cooper S gear set is out because my gearbox would have A+ flat top profile gears?

 

Sounds more like the Final drive is wrong.

[KTS]

Sounds like you're gearbox has the A+ double-groove gearset fitted - this i believe was the standard gearset for metro's and SPI/MPI's, and has the shortest first gear ratio of all the sets at 4:1

[nicklouse]

Sounds like you're gearbox has the A+ double-groove gearset fitted - this i believe was the standard gearset for metro's and SPI/MPI's, and has the shortest first gear ratio of all the sets at 4:1

Nope. The turbo and most A+ should have a first of 3.647:1 and a final drive of 3.21:1

 

what the OP has need to be checked as it should be fine.

[ac427]

 

Sounds like you're gearbox has the A+ double-groove gearset fitted - this i believe was the standard gearset for metro's and SPI/MPI's, and has the shortest first gear ratio of all the sets at 4:1

Nope. The turbo and most A+ should have a first of 3.647:1 and a final drive of 3.21:1

 

what the OP has need to be checked as it should be fine.

 

That's true but i don't have access to an engine hoist or crane to get the engine out of the car to see exactly what i have.

 

It was 20 years ago and it was built and installed for me. i''l see if the people are still about and keep records.

Edited by ac427, 01 May 2022 - 12:23 PM.

[ac427]

 

 

The engine is a 1430cc so there is quite a lot of torque.

I quite like the idea of swapping first gear for a taller ratio rather than swapping the whole gear set.

I'm not sure which 4 synchro gear sets would fit the A+ box.

I guess the Cooper S gear set is out because my gearbox would have A+ flat top profile gears?

 

How did you find cruising and top end speed ?

As sets, all of the 4 Synchro sets will fit in an A+ Case, even a Turbo one.

A change of 1st Gear Ratio would actually mean a complete Set change, while all '1st Gear' in all sets were the same Cog, the Laygears, 2nd and 3rd Gears and Input Gears are all different.
 

 

 

The top end speed was good and i had enough power to 'duke it out' on dual carriageways with bigger cars.  This was around 20 years ago though.

 

Are there many helical gearsets available with a taller first gear?

 

I see Mini Spares have an Evolution kit, have you tried it?

 

I just noticed Guessworks lists some of his own gear kits in the ratio calculator.

Edited by ac427, 01 May 2022 - 12:19 PM.

[Spider]

 

 

 

The engine is a 1430cc so there is quite a lot of torque.

I quite like the idea of swapping first gear for a taller ratio rather than swapping the whole gear set.

I'm not sure which 4 synchro gear sets would fit the A+ box.

I guess the Cooper S gear set is out because my gearbox would have A+ flat top profile gears?

 

How did you find cruising and top end speed ?

As sets, all of the 4 Synchro sets will fit in an A+ Case, even a Turbo one.

A change of 1st Gear Ratio would actually mean a complete Set change, while all '1st Gear' in all sets were the same Cog, the Laygears, 2nd and 3rd Gears and Input Gears are all different.
 

 

 

The top end speed was good and i had enough power to 'duke it out' on dual carriageways with bigger cars.  This was around 20 years ago though.

 

Are there many helical gearsets available with a taller first gear?

 

I see Mini Spares have an Evolution kit, have you tried it?

 

I just noticed Guessworks lists some of his own gear kits in the ratio calculator.

 

 

It does sound like your final drive ratio is fine, but you may need a closer gear ratio set and / or a taller final drive.
 

I haven't tried MS's Evo set or much aftermarket stuff.

This is a table I put together a few years back covering the factory gearsets, by part number, what goes with which and the ratios they give;-

 

[KTS]

Might also be worth a mention that switching to the eco transfer gears effectively makes all gears a little taller

[Cooperman]

All production gearboxes used in Minis and Metros had good gear ratio spacing.

In this case it sounds like the FDR is too low for the engine characteristics. A 1430 should give a wide and flat torque curve and thus a higher FDR can be used.

My suggestion would be not to be concerned with the gear ratios, but to fit a 3.2:1 FDR. Standard A+ gear ratios will then be good, acceleration will be optimised and top end cruising will be more relaxed.

It is easy to 'over-think' these gearing issues, but the key is 'keep iot simple' if you can.

[ac427]

All production gearboxes used in Minis and Metros had good gear ratio spacing.
In this case it sounds like the FDR is too low for the engine characteristics. A 1430 should give a wide and flat torque curve and thus a higher FDR can be used.
My suggestion would be not to be concerned with the gear ratios, but to fit a 3.2:1 FDR. Standard A+ gear ratios will then be good, acceleration will be optimised and top end cruising will be more relaxed.
It is easy to 'over-think' these gearing issues, but the key is 'keep iot simple' if you can.

I certainly agree on keeping it simple. I'm just worried I have the Metro HLE gearset with the 4:1 first gear. I guess there is no way to tell what I have externally.

I guess jacking the car up, removing the plugs and selecting 4th gear with a view to trying to turn the wheels by hand wouldn't help?