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Why Is My Car So Expensive? Ch 4 Dispatches


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#1 mab01uk

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 07:10 AM

I was expecting this Ch4 programme yesterday to be the usual lightweight dumbed down TV on cars but there was actually some interesting information on various topics relating to modern cars and the car industry. Worth a watch and includes a modern MINI Countryman resurrected from a serious write- off with all airbags deployed and then sold to an unsuspecting buyer.

Why Is My Car So Expensive? Ch 4 Dispatches:-
https://www.channel4...sive-dispatches

Cazoo and Cargiant offering written-off used cars to unsuspecting buyers.
"Cazoo and Cargiant have been found to be selling undeclared written-off used cars to unsuspecting buyers. An undercover investigation carried out by Channel 4 discovered some of the country’s most well-known car dealers, including Cazoo and Cargiant, were selling dangerous written-off cars that purported to be clean used cars complete with multi-check reports.
The Dispatches programme, fronted by journalist and broadcaster Ginny Buckley, found a BMW 1 Series for sale with online used car dealer Cazoo.
In the car’s advert there was no mention of a previous accident, but a salvage report revealed the 1 Series had been in an accident so severe to have deployed the airbags.
Meanwhile, at Cargiant – which bills itself as the world’s largest used car dealership – a Skoda Karoq up for sale for £18,299 was also not described to have had an accident in the past, yet a salvage report showed it was classed by the insurance company as a ‘Cat S’, ie, structurally damaged but repairable so it’s roadworthy again.
Cazoo and Cargiant said the cars were safe.
Ginny Buckley approached Cazoo about the 1 Series and was told: ‘We don’t sell any vehicles that have been in any accidents.’
When an undercover reporter queried the Skoda Karoq, Cargiant said ‘[a] car has to go through all the multipoint/multiple inspections which is almost 114 to 169 checks’.
When confronted with the claims, both companies reiterated the checks their used cars go through before being advertised for sale.
A Cazoo spokesperson said the BMW 1 Series incident was ‘highly unusual’, adding: ‘All our cars undergo thorough quality checks, including searches for any previous accident or damage history.’
Cargiant said its used cars were ‘checked against the industry standard vehicle history database and undergo rigorous inspections’.
With regard to the Karoq, Cargiant said it had paid market price from ‘one of the world’s largest vehicle remarketers’.
The spokesperson added: ‘The vehicle passed both theirs and Cargiant’s physical inspection and [industry standard database] checks.
‘Once Cargiant learnt that the insurer failed to declare the car’s write-off status, it immediately withdrew the vehicle from sale. Cargiant now checks all their retail stock with [a wider database] and found this to be the only undeclared write-off.’
It’s not the first time Cazoo’s ‘300-point’ check has come under scrutiny...."
https://cardealermag...g-buyers/269936

 

EULs4v1.jpg

 

 


Edited by mab01uk, 16 August 2022 - 06:47 PM.


#2 MatthewsDad

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 07:32 AM

I watched it too and agree - it was a pretty measured piece of journalism.

#3 Lowestoftmodder

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 10:12 AM

Why doesn’t DVLA have a comprehensive system? They are the ones who collect the insurance company data and update the v5 notes.

Surely with the standard “get vehicle information” system on DVLA’s website they could have a section of recorded losses?

Example:

Declared category S repairable vehicle on 11/04/2021

In depth features like pictures etc can still be obtained via paid for services

#4 sonscar

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 11:28 AM

So how does this work?you look at a picture of a generic car online,believe what the seller is saying,click buy it now without making your own checks and get a fully checked and inspected car delivered to your door?I would possibly be more wary before handing over cash for a second hand car.300 checks?front ok sides ok rear ok seats ok etc etc.If you crash your car and tell no-one then have it repaired out of your own pocket nobody will have a record of it so there are potentially lots of troubled motors out there with no crash history.Just saying,Steve..

PS is it possible to use an OBD scanner to interogate the brain to see if the history shows an impact or airbag deployment?I bet dealers and police forensic experts could.Just another ramdom thought,Steve..


Edited by sonscar, 16 August 2022 - 11:30 AM.


#5 Ethel

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 11:28 AM

Why doesn’t DVLA have a comprehensive system? They are the ones who collect the insurance company data and update the v5 notes.

Surely with the standard “get vehicle information” system on DVLA’s website they could have a section of recorded losses?

Example:

Declared category S repairable vehicle on 11/04/2021

In depth features like pictures etc can still be obtained via paid for services

It'd be extra cost, but moreso, potentially expose them to much higher litigation risk. Not sure that's something a public body should be taking on - but I can see the conflict of interests in making those who'd use it foot the bill.

 

Haven't watched it yet, but it does sound like a typical impersonal corporate business issue.

 

Whoever does the inspections won't be motivated to rock the boat by rooting out the bad 'uns. Their role will be as a link in the high turnover sausage machine - literally a confidence trick, since that's their main selling point. That high volume will transform the dodgy & dangerous cars that get through in to a different sort of write off, one that satisfies a cost benefit analysis in a business plan.

 

More "this is how it's done" instead of "this is why": a philosophy that gave us Grenfell and many other tragedies over the years.



#6 sonscar

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 11:34 AM

Remember,big business,despite all their words,adverts and shiny faced actors exist solely to remove your money from you and the more the better.Their choice of removal object just happens to be cars here(paint protection?upholstery protection?extended warranties?gap insurance?you get the idea)Cynical?surely,Steve..



#7 mab01uk

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 11:53 AM

Why doesn’t DVLA have a comprehensive system? They are the ones who collect the insurance company data and update the v5 notes.

Surely with the standard “get vehicle information” system on DVLA’s website they could have a section of recorded losses?

Example:

Declared category S repairable vehicle on 11/04/2021

In depth features like pictures etc can still be obtained via paid for services

 

Back in the day when a car was so badly damaged in an accident that the cost of repairing it exceeded its value it was written-off by the insurance company as a total loss. This information was stamped on the log book. If the car was subsequently repaired an intending purchaser knew that he was buying a car that had been extensively damaged in an accident. He could then make his own arrangements to have the car examined by a competent inspector. This scheme of stamping log books, which was voluntarily entered into by the insurance companies, was abandoned in 1973......see more in link below.

 

This is from 1975:-

WRITTEN-OFF MOTOR VEHICLES (LOG BOOKS)

https://api.parliame...icles-log-books


Edited by mab01uk, 16 August 2022 - 11:58 AM.


#8 sonikk4

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 12:14 PM

For the uninitiated its a minefield out there for buying second hand cars.

Pretty much every advert you see from a dealership is that the cars come with x amount of inspections, certified accident damage free (or words to that effect.) You the punter rock up to the dealership, see a sea of shiny cars, spot the one you want, have a quick look around the outside and a test drive and the deal is done. The rep will do their utmost to try and sell you some additional things, or add something to sweeten the deal. Bingo you have bought the car.

The slightly more savvy of us will do a bit of research first, have a good look around the car and look in more detail. I did just this very recently at Citreon garage in Banbury. Mk7 Golf GTD 3dr. Very low miles?? clear accident / stolen report and in the pictures and blurb looked good. Got there, straight off had a quick walk around, took it for a test drive and at that point was happy. Got back to the garage, parked it up, opened all of the doors, boot and bonnet then started doing a more thorough inspection.

So, straight off the bat all of the brakes looked manky as in dust shields were flaking and just did not look right. All door gaps were good, no undue noises, engine bay although dirty was straight and looking down into the depths with a torch no sign of any impact damage.

Now bearing in mind the car was externally dirty which was a bit of a red flag i started to look deeper. Saw numerous paint marks, scuffs etc, not the end of the world but hidden by the dust and dirt. Looked down the drivers side of the car, all was straight and paintwork original, same for the front and again the same.
Now the passenger side from the front back looked ok until i got to the rear quarter and there was a dull look to the paintwork. this was from the swage line down and went around to the rear lights and the left hand corner of the bumper. Mmm no accident damage then?? and even after doing this i missed something and it wasnt until i brought the rep out to show did i then clock the crease still left just below the window to the swage line.

So a half arsed repair. We even had the manager come out and he was annoyed as i said the car was not fit to be sold as in its current condtion and for the money they were asking for it (£15K) He offered to have it resprayed but i said to him what else had been hidden. They took the car off the forecourt and off Autotrader really quickly. So either it was a trade in or something the group had bought at auction. I dont actually blame them per se but to offer a car in the filty condition it was in to a prospective buyer was poor form.

Would everybody do what i did, probably not especially from a mainstream dealership.

#9 mpialan

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 03:26 PM

When I saw the programme advertised, I thought it was about classic Mini ownership!

#10 Maccmike8

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 05:21 PM

Sad I missed that.

No matter where the vehicle is bought from, always HPI!



#11 Homersimpson

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 06:43 PM

Why doesn’t DVLA have a comprehensive system? They are the ones who collect the insurance company data and update the v5 notes.

Surely with the standard “get vehicle information” system on DVLA’s website they could have a section of recorded losses?

Example:

Declared category S repairable vehicle on 11/04/2021

In depth features like pictures etc can still be obtained via paid for services

Part of the problem is that the categories bear no relation to how badly damaged a car is, rather to how much the car was worth at that point.  If I dented the sill on my 2007 Fiesta it would probably get a Cat S as its a structural part and not worth repairing, if I did it 10 years ago when it was worth something as a car it would have just been repaired with no marker.

 

The HPI records are generally pretty good but as with all systems of a signiciant size there are always errors and insurance companies don't always register cars that quickly so in the past it was possible to buy something salvage, repair it and sell it before the marker was in place.  A friend of mine bought a Passat that was just like that and it wasn't until he tried to sell it that it came to light that it was (at that time Cat D).

 

We could have a system where any car that is written off has the log book marked but that adds a lot of work for the DVLA (and one thing they don't like is work) and that doesn't prevent someone buying a car that was heavily damaged and repaired by the insurance company or was imported from another country and repaired and sold here.

 

If you want to see what can be repaired then have a look on YouTube for Arthur Tussik, the man is a master if his craft but even then with what he does its frighening to think that there are people out there doing this and selling them off as straight, especially when you consider how  bad some sections of the motor trade are.  Here are a few of the best/worst ones depending on your point of view:

 

 

 

 


Edited by Homersimpson, 16 August 2022 - 06:48 PM.


#12 Lowestoftmodder

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 07:22 PM

The Modern v5 (logbook) does have a section on the front that states the write off history.
My thought is to have this on the dvla site too.

The modern categories are A B N S and X

Resold “salvaged damaged” cars are generally S and N.
S structural
N non structural

The older more confusing value based system of C and D is long gone


Modern sales are often involving online keeper detail changes (between 7 am and 7pm oddly) and I just think a warning section on the vehicle loss history could be a handy first line of defence for the less savvy.
This should never be taken as the only resource of course but it’s a good simple starting point. Thus wouldn’t involve the public purse being accountable. Just the same information that’s on the front of the V5 being displayed at time of keeper change?

It’s a start and could prompt a wider search of a cars history?

There will always be an undesirable element abusing systems and that’s why we pay the police and the DVLA. I just hope a knee jerk set of draconian laws aren’t passes that stop us repairing cat S and cat N cars.
Lots of mini owners insist on salvage retention and these people should not be tarred with the same brush as some shown on the programme.
Not every cat S or N car is a death trap and these cars should be mot tested after repairs. The old VIC check was purely to make sure a stolen car wasn’t being passed off as a damaged repair and never checked repair quality.
Most mot inspectors to a good job and will flag up dodgy repairs and unsafe cars.

I’d just like to see an extra safe guard and not some new knee jerk reactions

Insurance companies should be accountable for not updating DVLA in good time etc

Edited by Lowestoftmodder, 16 August 2022 - 07:37 PM.


#13 Lowestoftmodder

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 07:27 PM

Why doesn’t DVLA have a comprehensive system? They are the ones who collect the insurance company data and update the v5 notes.

Surely with the standard “get vehicle information” system on DVLA’s website they could have a section of recorded losses?

Example:

Declared category S repairable vehicle on 11/04/2021

In depth features like pictures etc can still be obtained via paid for services

Part of the problem is that the categories bear no relation to how badly damaged a car is, rather to how much the car was worth at that point. If I dented the sill on my 2007 Fiesta it would probably get a Cat S as its a structural part and not worth repairing, if I did it 10 years ago when it was worth something as a car it would have just been repaired with no marker.

The HPI records are generally pretty good but as with all systems of a signiciant size there are always errors and insurance companies don't always register cars that quickly so in the past it was possible to buy something salvage, repair it and sell it before the marker was in place. A friend of mine bought a Passat that was just like that and it wasn't until he tried to sell it that it came to light that it was (at that time Cat D).

We could have a system where any car that is written off has the log book marked but that adds a lot of work for the DVLA (and one thing they don't like is work) and that doesn't prevent someone buying a car that was heavily damaged and repaired by the insurance company or was imported from another country and repaired and sold here.

If you want to see what can be repaired then have a look on YouTube for Arthur Tussik, the man is a master if his craft but even then with what he does its frighening to think that there are people out there doing this and selling them off as straight, especially when you consider how bad some sections of the motor trade are. Here are a few of the best/worst ones depending on your point of view:





Good to see the repair quality here, not a cut and shut sweat shop! He is repairing just how the manufacturers do. Not frightening at all to the trained repairer. Probably scary to the I’ll informed public who’ve never set foot in an insurance approved body shop (my trade).

If all cars that were cat S and N never went back on the road then “used” cars would be even more expensive and we would produce a **** tonne more c02 making unnecessary amounts of new vehicles.
Repairing and recycling is good for our environment.

I hope we don’t let the few spoil it for the many. We should tackle hidden histories and not attack a multi billion repair industry.

Edited by Lowestoftmodder, 16 August 2022 - 07:35 PM.


#14 Lowestoftmodder

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 07:34 PM

By the way I’m not arguing with peoples opinions or posts, just sharing my view on the topic posts and my expectation on a set of proposed laws that often pop up after programmes like this.

I’d like to keep my right to salvage retention on my classics

Edited by Lowestoftmodder, 16 August 2022 - 07:34 PM.


#15 sonscar

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Posted 16 August 2022 - 07:55 PM

As I mentioned,not all cars are repaired with insurance involvement and no matter how the dvla works there will be no records.Caveat emptor or some such.The motor trade has always had a poor reputation and some of it is probably deserved.
I toyed with buying my last daily driver using cash.I gave up as every dealers site wants you to take on some form of renting.I will be retaining my elderly KIA until it dies.Steve..




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