12 replies to this topic

[The.Little.Red.One]

Hi folks!

Apologies for my 1st post being a cry for help, I'll get onto the introductions in due course but for now I'm in a spot of bother!

In short, my new suspension cone wasn't correctly seated and now I can't get my compression tool into it.

Background: I fitted new evolution cones and HiLos on the front, removing the hubs to do the ball joints. Couldn't lift the top arm to Refit the hub so I went to compress the cone but the threads don't align. I have adjusted the HiLo to it's lowest setting, tried removing the top arm but there's too much downward pressure to budge the spindle (retaining plate has been removed!), so I'm all out of ideas now.

I'm hoping someone else has had a similar issue they were able to resolve. Running out of time for the L2B run now.

For info, the car is a 1990 Cooper (pre mpi/spi) with dry suspension. Top arms were recently removed and cleaned up.

Thanks in advance. 🙏

[KTS]

i would have thought if you were able to assemble it without using the compressor you should be able to dis-assemble it without it

 

a jack and a block of wood under the arm may allow you to take the tension off and release the top arm pin, but be warned; when the pin comes out, the more tension the arm is under the more likely it will be to come flying out and cause damage (to you or the car), so anything you can do to restrain it the better

[DeadSquare]

Did your compression tool screw into the rubber doughnut before you had this problem ?

 

Can you see that the rubber doughnut is definitely out of place ?

 

Did the cone seat in the doughnut before re-assembly?

 

Can you get the car jacked high enough to get a bar up into the turret to relocate the doughnut ?

[The.Little.Red.One]

i would have thought if you were able to assemble it without using the compressor you should be able to dis-assemble it without it
 
a jack and a block of wood under the arm may allow you to take the tension off and release the top arm pin, but be warned; when the pin comes out, the more tension the arm is under the more likely it will be to come flying out and cause damage (to you or the car), so anything you can do to restrain it the better

I used the tool to put it in place, not sure how or when it got unseated. That is my biggest concern that if I'm able to get it undone, it's gonna come apart with a bang. My plan was to try and jack it from the rear of the top arm using a bottle jack to see if I can release just enough tension to remove the spindle.

[The.Little.Red.One]

Did your compression tool screw into the rubber doughnut before you had this problem ?

Can you see that the rubber doughnut is definitely out of place ?

Did the cone seat in the doughnut before re-assembly?

Can you get the car jacked high enough to get a bar up into the turret to relocate the doughnut ?

I can see half of the threaded part of the cone but I just can't get it to budge into place. Unfortunately I'm working out of a shipping container but yeah, getting it higher up might give me a bit more leverage with a longer bar.

I did use the compression tool to put it in and it threaded fine. I thought the cone was seated in the doughnut correctly but my current situation would now suggest it wasn't, unless somehow the doughnut is damaged which I imagine is unlikely. Something to check I suppose when I do eventually get around the current issue.

Edited by The.Little.Red.One, 25 April 2023 - 04:57 PM.

[KTS]

 

i would have thought if you were able to assemble it without using the compressor you should be able to dis-assemble it without it
 
a jack and a block of wood under the arm may allow you to take the tension off and release the top arm pin, but be warned; when the pin comes out, the more tension the arm is under the more likely it will be to come flying out and cause damage (to you or the car), so anything you can do to restrain it the better

I used the tool to put it in place, not sure how or when it got unseated. That is my biggest concern that if I'm able to get it undone, it's gonna come apart with a bang. My plan was to try and jack it from the rear of the top arm using a bottle jack to see if I can release just enough tension to remove the spindle.

 

 

you should be able to tell from jacking the arm up to release the pin just how much (..or how little) tension it's under, then plan accordingly 

[nichmoss]

I'm replacing front cones on my car at the moment. I can't see how you'd get it in misaligned if you use the tool to compress it as there is so little space, but if this is a possible issue, it would be good to know.

Good luck, Chris

[mbolt998]

It sounds like a dilly of a pickle. If you support the weight of the car on the top link (with an axle stand or something) and try to jiggle it around maybe it will push things straight? Another thing you could try I guess is weld a universal joint from a socket set into the middle of the tool so it can be screwed in at a bit of an angle and still find the thread. If you can get the trumpet off and access the thread from underneath maybe pulling the cone down and pushing it back up again would help. Could also squirt a lot of something greasy up in there to try to help it move. Another idea is insert a bit of aluminium round bar down through the top and bash it with a hammer to try to push the cone downwards (having removed the trumpet if that's possible). If you can free it up in either direction it might find the right position if you reassemble it with the trumpet again.

[sonscar]

Is it tipped over at the trumpet end?or tipped over at the subframe top where it has failed to engage with the cup?If the latter it is possible to pry it back into place through the triangular hole at the front of the tower.Beware there is a lot of energy stored.Steve..

[DeadSquare]

If you exhaust all the suggestions

 

 

Did your compression tool screw into the rubber doughnut before you had this problem ?

Can you see that the rubber doughnut is definitely out of place ?

Did the cone seat in the doughnut before re-assembly?

Can you get the car jacked high enough to get a bar up into the turret to relocate the doughnut ?

I can see half of the threaded part of the cone but I just can't get it to budge into place. Unfortunately I'm working out of a shipping container but yeah, getting it higher up might give me a bit more leverage with a longer bar.

I did use the compression tool to put it in and it threaded fine. I thought the cone was seated in the doughnut correctly but my current situation would now suggest it wasn't, unless somehow the doughnut is damaged which I imagine is unlikely. Something to check I suppose when I do eventually get around the current issue.

 

Just checking again ------ You have removed the little bit of rubber that is screwed to the subframe, under the top arm ?.  Removing it gives a bit more room.

 

If all the advice fails, as a drastic last resort, because there may be too much compressed force to just pull it out, in order to extract the pin on which the top arm pivots, you may have to cut most of the thread off the 'passenger' end of the pin. 

 

Leave about 1/4" sticking out, which you are going to clout with a ball hammer to drive it through the top arm and subframe so that when the big 'washer' on the other end of the pin, clears the subframe you can get a stout screwdriver in there and drag the other end of the pin clear of the inside of the turret and WITH  A  TWANG,  everything should be loose enough to pull apart.

[Spider]

Depending on which way it's moved you might be able to put it back in place using a dolly and lump hammer and getting to it through the window in the front side of the subrame.

 

If that's not an option, cut the lock nut off the main adjusting bolt, you could use a Dremal to cut most of the way through, using a chisel for the last bit so you don't damage the threads, that may let you back off the Hilo that wee bit more, though, if it's a longer bolt, doing this may not help.

 

Options after that, it's a matter of getting the Pin out and pulling the Top Arm. You can lever the back of the Pin inserting a suitable lever (a tyre lever works well here) between the body and the threaded end of the pin, moving it that way as far as you can, by then it will have dropped a little as the front Thrust Washer will have cleared the Subframe, then lever that bit more from the front side, getting the lever in between the Subframe and the thrust face of the Thrust Washer.

If this is the one on the Left Side of the car, you'll need to remove the Radiator to get at it all.

[The.Little.Red.One]

Hey folks!

Update on this issue then, having exhausted all the above suggestions I was forced to bring the angle grinder into play.

Removed the rubber boot from the suspension knuckle joint, cleaned up the grease to prevent a fire and attacked the cheapest part. Tricky angle and always a little disconcerting but all went to plan and it now sits correctly.

My guess is that I didn't have the HiLo trumpet seated correctly in the cone when I released the compression which subsequently caused it to shift. Only advice for anyone doing this for the 1st time would be to make 100% sure the cone is seated correctly 1st, then the trumpet it seated in the cone correctly - learn from my mistakes!

Thanks for all your responses!

Edited by The.Little.Red.One, 29 April 2023 - 06:48 PM.

[nichmoss]

Good to hear you got it fixed. I finished mine earlier this week and was careful of this. It seems hard to believe that the cone wasn't seated correctly so you're probably right that the trumpet wasn't correctly in the cone and displaced the cone when you released the tension.

A huge difference in the ride of my car now but the old cones were very compressed - 62000 miles and 25 years...

Cheers, Chris