17 replies to this topic

[Lplus]

 

Ok...looks like I did incorrectly shim the retainer. After shimming it correctly, and torquing retainer bolts / the end nuts box A seems to behave as it should, and like box B.

All the gears turn as they should and baulk rings looks good. Phew!

Though I have a question though it might seem strange.

 

Should there be a tiny amount of axial end float along the shaft to allow oil into all the areas it should? Even though everything moves nicely now, It seems pretty 'tight', no play if I tug/push on the 1st motion roller and the main shaft at the 3rd motion end. Perhaps it should be that way.

I see there are oil galleries between the teeth on some of the gears to get oil to the needle bearings, but if there is no end float then would there be areas that could suffer from oil starvation? The obvious point is it all sits in oil, but if oil can't get in where its too tight...then that wont help.

 

Where on the box is end float measured and what should it be? I couldn't find any info in the Leyland workshop manual.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

Can anyone answer me on this? 

 

To put it another way, after :

 

The retainer is correctly shimmmed and the retainer bolts are torqued to 18NM

The main nuts (1st motion and 3rd motion) are torqued to 207NM 

The synchros move freely along with no issues with gear selection

And most importantly all the gears turn without resistance, especially in reverse.

 

All this is acheived on my box now. :)

 

Is it then correct that there should be no 'play' if you push/pull from the 1st motion end, and push/pull on the main shaft pinion end? Its currently 'solid', with no play.

 

As I mentioned this may be normal and the desired result, and due to the gears being in the sump in the mini and submerged in oil.

But I wondered if there should there me a tiny, tiny ammount of play so that needle rollers and gear.ends that face/meet eachother on the shaft have a small end-float gap to allow sufficient oil in the first instance?  

 

 

 

Again, just trying to unserstand the workings and and save myself time if I have not correctly set up before I go further with the build. :)

 

Thanks for your comments  so far :) 

 

Yes it is correct.  The first motion shaft is held tight in the input bearing by the input shaft nut and the bearing should have no sideways movement.  The third motion shaft is held tight in the double row inner bearing by the output gear nut and the bearing outer is held tight in the casing by the retainer plate and shims.  There should be no play in the output bearing when the nut is tightened up so no sideways play.  The two shafts only touch where the third motion shaft nose sits in the input shaft recess with a needle roller between them,  There is a gap between the end of the nose and the end of the recess which should be constant.

[Spider]

 

Ok...looks like I did incorrectly shim the retainer. After shimming it correctly, and torquing retainer bolts / the end nuts box A seems to behave as it should, and like box B.

 

Where on the box is end float measured and what should it be? I couldn't find any info in the Leyland workshop manual.

 

The retainer is correctly shimmmed and the retainer bolts are torqued to 18NM

 

Is it then correct that there should be no 'play' if you push/pull from the 1st motion end, and push/pull on the main shaft pinion end? Its currently 'solid', with no play.

 

I actually replied to part of this before you had done it.

 

Fitting shims to correct this, between the Bearing Retainer and the Case is not the solution here. The Bearing is not then held firm (might feel that way from the fit in the Case, but it is not), then it will float back and forth on the case between the Register and the Retainer. As the Gears are Helix there are forces generated that will drive this. When driving and the shaft is thrust against the Retainer, happy days, but when it thrust the other way, it will drag on which ever Baulk Ring it's bind up on, resulting in burning out of that Baulk Ring. It will also wear the Tunnel in the Case in which the Mainshaft Bearing is in, resulting in a fully and freely floating Bearing.

 

In regards to end float, on both shafts it should be zero.

If you are getting any end float, the bearings are worn and need to be replaced.

[lildeucecoop72]

Thanks Lplus, and again to you Spider.

Regarding shimming being not the answer if the box was dragging/has rolling resistance, I believe I incorrectly measured in the gap between the retainer and case in the first place. Also the baulk rings weren’t dragging as far as I could see, and seemed good.

I tested the shimming by removing shims torquing back up resulting in the dragging getting heavier, while adding shims resulted in the dragging easing when the bolts are torqued.

I think I measured it the first time with no shims with the bolts done up too tight, probably at 18nm, with result being abut a 0.006” gap (which is what I shimmed it to) but if it had been measured a bit more loosely as per instructions, it would have probably been between 0.008 - 0.010”

On inspection of the retainer itself, I also noticed a small burr cause by an previous impact on the flat face of the where it meets the case, which may have affected it with uneven pressure, so I changed back to the original retainer that belonged to the box, which is totally flat.

This time I measured it again, but this time just over finger tight, ‘just nipping’ it with a spanner. It came in at about 0.010”, so I shimmed accordingly. This is when the dragging stopped, and things felt like ‘they should’.