12 replies to this topic

[trevonebeach]

Hi,  

 

I have a 1991 Mini Mayfair purchased last year.  The hazards warning lights do not work.  The indicators work OK so I assume the flasher relay is OK.  When I turn on the hazard warning light switch the indicators cease to work, I have been told this is normal as the switch diverts the electricity to the hazard light relay.  I have replaced the hazard light switch and the hazard relay the hazard lights still do not work.  I have reached the limit of my autoelectrical knowledge.  Other factors which may be relevant one of the line fuses was missing ( feed looks like purple/orange - buts its a bit dirty) I put in a 5A fuse and pressed the hazard switch nothing happened - no lights and the fuse did not did not blow, other fuses in the fuse box are OK and also the interior light does not work (bulb is OK)

 

Regards  Paul

[KTS]

both circuits (hazards, interior lamp) are fed through that in-line fuse so i'd start from there.  the wire in to the fuse holder (brown i think) should be permanently live (12volts) so check that if you can.  also check the contacts within the fuse holder are clean;  use a small flat blade screwdriver to carefully scrape back to clean metal and retest

[Ethel]

Yes, turning on the hazards turns off the indicators.  That's tthe bottom pair of pins on the switch, with light green/brown wires. The other group of 4 pins are for the hazards - the supply you found, one for the left side indicators & one for the right, the last pin has a short loop to supply the warning light in the switch.

 

Putting 12v across the flasher should make it flash (audible clicking), it's not load sensitive like the indicator flasher. It is normally open though - an internal resistance heats a bimetallic strip to close the contacts. Once the contacts are closed the current can bypass the resistance so it cools, opens the contacts and repeats the sequence. As above, the interior lamp has great potential for fuse blowing shorts..

[trevonebeach]

Firstly thanks to the guys who got back to me.

The wire (brown) into the fuse holder is permanently live and I've followed this back to the hazard relay holder and the position where the 87 pin goes is also permanently live.

I've tested the relays by putting 12V across the 85 & 86 pins, solenoid clicks and I've used a multimeter to check continuity across the 30 and 87 pins there is continuity but when I put a test lamp across the 30 and 87 pins it does not light, seems odd to me.  I've tried the original relay and two new one (made in China - could be duff)  they all click and show continuity but none will light the bulb. Do I have 3 duff relays or am I missing something?

 

Paul

[KTS]

have the hazards ever worked since you acquired the car ?

 

does the hazard relay have a part number on it ?

 

it may be miscommunication, but the pin numbering you've referred to above is typical of a switch relay.  hazard relays tend to use a different naming convention

 

https://www.12voltpl...ing diagram.pdf

 

Also; going back to the original post it's worth noting that the indicator and hazard circuits typically each have a dedicated flasher relay so indicators flashing has no bearing on whether the hazard relay is working (..or not)

[GraemeC]

A test lamp across the switching terminals won’t light. You’d need to earth one side of the test lamp and then power the other side from one of the terminals.
Connect it to 30 and it should be permanently lit, connect it to 87 and it should flash (the load of the lamp creates the on/off sequence as Ethel describes).

[Ethel]

It gets confusing when you call a flasher unit a relay...

 

There were 2 arrangements for cars with hazards.

 

The one introduced in '76 had 2 flasher units:

 

One for the indicators, that was load sensitive & rated for one side of orange flashy things (It was fail safe as it'd still light the bulbs even if it lost its flash.

 

T'other for the hazards, not load sensitive, so it'd still do something if the hazard involved a quantity of smashed indicator lights (If it failed. you'd get no lights, but it would also be less likely to flatten your battery so badly it'd even be hard to push start.

 

 

The one that came in at about the same time as the SPI, but not only on injection Minis, has just one, electronic, flasher unit. It behaves like the indicator flasher, but isn't load sensitive so it can flash all your flashy things at once for use with hazards. Because hazards work without you having to leave the ignition key in, a relay is used to turn the indicators off for you if you happen to remove the key & forget to cancel the stalk.

 

A relay has 4 pins a flasher unit usually has just 2; sometimes 3, like the one required for the Mk1's flashing stalk.

[trevonebeach]

Hi,

 

Point by point.  The one thing I did not check when I bought the car was the hazard warning lights, it did however have a new MOT cert which should have covered the hazard lights - dodgy lights or dodgy tester?

The relay fitted to the car was made by Siemens p/no V23134-B1052-C242,  I checked on Google and it was called a relay.  It's got 4 pins and the numbering on the Siemens one matches that on the replacements I've bought though I did find one old post that used different system.

 

I've also taken the fuse box off and cleaned/checked all the contacts everything seems OK.

 

Thanks again for all your help.

 

Paul

[KTS]

OK - as it's a standard power relay rather than a flasher relay, perhaps as Ethel suggested if it's a later car that's the relay that's used to cut power to the indicator circuit when the ignition is off

 

i'm not familiar with the electrical systems on the later cars, so can't suggest anything more other than having a look at the wiring diagram pages to figure out what it's function is

[Ethel]

Just had a similar topic on the later setup.

 

The flasher is before the hazard switch and flashes both hazards & indicators. The feed to the indicators goes through the hazard switch to the relay (switched by the ignition being turned on) then to the stalk.

[trevonebeach]

Picking up on Ethel's reply I've done some reading and now understand the difference between a relay and a flasher (I think).  The 4 pin relay I've replaced must power a flasher unit somewhere in the car , I've found another relay ( 7 pins ! ) under the dash which is the dim/dip relay but looking at a wiring diagram there is lead from this relay to the "direction indicator unit" and then onto the hazard warning light switch,  I've ordered another relay hopefully this will cure the problem.

 

Regards  Paul

[Ethel]

Dim dip isn't connected. It's the same stalk that controls direction indicators & dip/high beam, but there's no electrical connection.

 

The indicator relay is after the part of the hazard switch that turns off the indicators when the hazards are turned on. The 4 connections should be:

 

 

Terminals 30 & 87 the indicator circuit, light green/ brown wires 

 

Terminals 85 & 86 one an ignition live (via a fuse) green wire, the other a black wire to earth

 

 

 

It does seem unlikely that you'd get indicators but no hazards with the later setup as they use the same circuit up to the hazard switch. Confirm the relay actually is for the indicators & matches the colours given above and/or pull the relay to confirm it stops the indicators (while the ignition is on.

[mullet]

Hi all.  I also have a mini mayfair (1984).  And I also had problems with the hazards.  It was fixed when I got a new flasher unit (http://www.minispare...ic/GFU2507.aspx).

 

But now, when the hazards are on, only the right indicators flash.  The indicators (and dash indicators) work just fine otherwise.  I suspect the flasher unit is banjaxed again, but after just 6 years.  Anyone else think it is likely to be in need of a new flasher unit?

 

In fact, I was not too happy with this replacement (http://www.minispare...ic/GFU2507.aspx) because it didn't make a ticktock noise when on.  Very silent and I prefer the noise being present.  Any suggestions from members of a better replacement part?