33 replies to this topic

[Designer]

Hi All,

 

Click on the link below. Quite an interesting article.

 

DVLA reveals how many classic cars over 40 years old are still on the road today | This is Money

 

Paddy

Edited by Designer, 16 March 2024 - 04:15 PM.

[KTS]

Hi All,

 

Click on the link below. Quite an interesting article.

 

DVLA reveals how many classic cars over 40 years old are still on the road today | This is Money

 

Paddy

 

considering vehicle statistics are freely available, and have been for quite some time, the article does seem to be somewhat sensationalist (..hardly surprising considering who's behind it)

 

https://www.gov.uk/g...ics-data-tables

[Aly-g]

It won't matter about road fund licence exception when pay per mile is introduced will it ! ?
NO one will be excempt, well except the politicians who we pay for anyway.


Allan

Edited by Aly-g, 18 March 2024 - 10:19 PM.

[Bungleaio]

It costs me £100 for 6 months RFL, I do more than that in petrol when going away for the weekend so I'm not fussed about it. I mean it would be nice to have it reduced from the 40 years but it's not worth getting excited about.

[Bobbins]

My other toy is a 1999 Caterham and at 25 years old would be considered a “classic” at many events etc. The RFL for its age is based entirely on engine capacity, either under or over 1549cc. Mine’s a K-Series engine over 1549cc so paid annually would be £325, the equivalent to £341.25 if paid monthly.
The same would apply to many perfectly decent vehicles which are likely scrapped due to the high cost, very out of balance with the 40 year zero cost status. It’s the band that sits between 40 years old and pre-2001 that needs addressing, making it the same as classic status might not be appropriate but we’re now far enough on from 2001 that the pre-2001 band should be adjusted. It made sense in 2002, it doesn’t now.

[coopertaz]

why would they reduce the age band when they are now introducing tax for vehicles that were zero rate, retrospectivly aswell not just new models, and icreasing the £20 tax band. keep on pushing and may well lose all. Remember it's an agreement not a right

[Homersimpson]

My other toy is a 1999 Caterham and at 25 years old would be considered a “classic” at many events etc. The RFL for its age is based entirely on engine capacity, either under or over 1549cc. Mine’s a K-Series engine over 1549cc so paid annually would be £325, the equivalent to £341.25 if paid monthly.
The same would apply to many perfectly decent vehicles which are likely scrapped due to the high cost, very out of balance with the 40 year zero cost status. It’s the band that sits between 40 years old and pre-2001 that needs addressing, making it the same as classic status might not be appropriate but we’re now far enough on from 2001 that the pre-2001 band should be adjusted. It made sense in 2002, it doesn’t now.

The problem is that the whole tax exemption for classics doesn't make any sense at all if you look at it objectively, if people can afford to own a classic then they can afford to pay for the road tax for it.  When people are struggling financially as they are at the moment, many living in poverty then giving people who can afford what is essentially a toy worth thousands of pounds a tax break is ridiculous.

 

Its unlikely that people who are effectively campaigning for MK1/2 Ford Mondeos to be tax exempt will get what they want and its more likely that by making an issue that tax exemption for all will either be cancelled or more likely frozen again like it was by the last labour government causing a significant difference in value between tax exempt and non tax exempt cars.  This will also cause cars that just miss out on the exemption to be scrapped/broken for parts.

 

If you look at the Mini as an example, how many 73-80 Minis do you see these days, the early ones were tax exempt and were kept and the later ones were newer and slightly better condition (debatable!) and worth a bit more but those middle years were just worthless old cars that people scrapped or broke for bits (and I was one of them). 

 

Its amazing how many minis you see that are clearly later ones with early log books, I saw a mini van last weekend and it was on a 1969/70 H plate with a rubber mounted front subframe.  A lot of this was a direct result of the rolling exemption being removed.

[sonscar]

Not every classic owner is wealthy.I have five classics that were scrap and rebuilt them myself and have owned them for between twenty and forty years.I retired five years ago and have a very modest pension and not yet eligible for state pension.I am paying a levy for non power bill payers and would not be able to pay for road licence.Of course it is probably my fault for not working harder,smarter,retiring,not getting another job etc.
Beware of assuming the circumstances of others,Steve..

[stuart bowes]

I always thought it less about who owns the car and their particular circumstances, and more about the car itself - more than enough tax has been paid on that vehicle over the years, it's owed a sort of 'retirement' whereby it's allowed to stop paying tax and be allowed to roam free as it were

 

lets not forget as we all know the actual cost of running a car of that age is often an ongoing issue, unlike new cars where you can just drive it for 10-15 years and nothing really goes wrong (ideally but not always of course) you just change the odd brake pads and tyres here and there and put fresh oil in it

 

I suppose the assumption is that anyone who wants to own and run a classic is the sort of person who has an active interest in maintaining the car to a high standard (again ideally but not always) and probably also drives it on a limited mileage basis AND probably already has at least one every day normal car they pay road tax on.  these are just generalisations though you can't list out everyone's different set of circumstances

Edited by stuart bowes, 26 March 2024 - 03:04 PM.

[Homersimpson]

Not every classic owner is wealthy.I have five classics that were scrap and rebuilt them myself and have owned them for between twenty and forty years.I retired five years ago and have a very modest pension and not yet eligible for state pension.I am paying a levy for non power bill payers and would not be able to pay for road licence.Of course it is probably my fault for not working harder,smarter,retiring,not getting another job etc.
Beware of assuming the circumstances of others,Steve..

And yet you own five classic cars which will have a not inconsiderable value even if they are only worth £1,000 each, try explaining that you need a tax break so you can afford to run them to someone relying on food banks to feed their kids or struggling to pay their energy bill.

 

The point i'm making is that we are very lucky to have any kind of tax break for our hobby and people making a load of noise about it so their MK1 Mondeo or similar doesn't have to pay will probably backfire on the rest of us.

[Homersimpson]

I always thought it less about who owns the car and their particular circumstances, and more about the car itself - more than enough tax has been paid on that vehicle over the years, it's owed a sort of 'retirement' whereby it's allowed to stop paying tax and be allowed to roam free as it were

 

lets not forget as we all know the actual cost of running a car of that age is often an ongoing issue, unlike new cars where you can just drive it for 10-15 years and nothing really goes wrong (ideally but not always of course) you just change the odd brake pads and tyres here and there and put fresh oil in it

 

I suppose the assumption is that anyone who wants to own and run a classic is the sort of person who has an active interest in maintaining the car to a high standard (again ideally but not always) and probably also drives it on a limited mileage basis AND probably already has at least one every day normal car they pay road tax on.  these are just generalisations though you can't list out everyone's different set of circumstances

I'm afraid thats not how tax works, even pensioners have to pay tax on their pension income if its above the tax threshold. 

 

The free road tax thing is something we are lucky to have and drawing attention to it with a likely change in government this year is not a good idea, especially as one of the first things the last labour government did when they got into power was freeze the date of tax exemption.

[stuart bowes]

I wasn't drawing a direct comparison to pensions or retirement per se, I was just offering some reasoning as to why old cars can be allowed free tax after a long enough period of contribution

 

as opposed to the idea of it being related to the owner's financial situation in any way

 

I fully agree we should keep shtum and hope they don't change anything 

Edited by stuart bowes, 26 March 2024 - 11:03 PM.

[PoolGuy]

How would people feel about a fixed fee (yes I appreciate that it’s still a tax) on vehicles over a certain age? £50 a year? 

[Quinlan minor]

How would people feel about a fixed fee (yes I appreciate that it’s still a tax) on vehicles over a certain age? £50 a year? 

Those in government would love the idea!

 

They would then raise, and raise, the fee.

 

For example:

"

Impact on individuals, households and families

This measure (electrically propelled vehicle exemption no longer applies to cars, vans and motorcycles. The exemption for cars with low CO2 emissions will also be omitted. Schedule 1 will be amended so that electric cars, vans and motorcycles are liable to pay the same rates as petrol and diesel vehicles. Schedule 1 will also be amended so that new electric cars will be eligible to pay the higher rate of duty, commonly known as the expensive car supplement.

The Graduated Vehicle Excise Duty (Prescribed Types of Fuel) Regulations 2001 will also be revoked so that hybrid and alternative fuel vehicles are no longer eligible for the reduced rate.) will impact on individuals who own an electric car, van or motorcycle. These individuals will now need to pay VED on their vehicles. Changes will come into effect from 1 April 2025. For existing vehicles, changes to VED rates will apply from the vehicle’s annual renewal date for the 2025-26 financial year.

This measure is expected overall to have no impact on business’ and individual’s experience of dealing with HMRC as the introduction of VED on these vehicles does not change any processes.

This measure is not expected to impact on family formation, stability or breakdown." (Really?)

 

[PoolGuy]

They could link it to the CPI, much like mobile phone companies do.