22 replies to this topic

[wilsonch]

Afternoon 

     Just had my first MOT after a full nut and bolt rebuild.

on the 'wheel wobble' test there appeared to be play in the wheel bearings.  only however when shaking the wheel with hands at 3 & 9 oclock.  hands at 12 & 6- no play.

 

I assumed the hub nut would need a tighten even though i did them to the correct torque?

when i have tried this they wont tighten any more.

 

I have new timkin bearings in the hubs.

 

i did not replace the CV joint.

 

I have read this https://www.theminif...wheel-bearings/

its a great guide but no shaft measurement?

 

What is the diameter of a new CV joint shaft. i cant help thinking that they are worn 

My very basic measuring puts the shaft at 31.7mm

measuring the bearings (with a vernier not a micrometer) they are 32mm.

 

Is this where Iam falling flat?

 

any help greatly appreciated, feeling a little deflated....i thought i had finished and i am taking the front end to bits again.

 

 

[bpirie1000]

What did the mot person say about it?

I trust wheel nuts were re torqued after a few miles and the slack is not there...

How much grease did you put in the bearing?

[imack]

Surely play in a wheel bearing will show up when rocking the wheel in all directions, not just at 3&9 o'clock. Presuming the track rod end and rack are OK, I'd be making sure the steering arm is tight on the hub. This will give free play in the3&9 o'clock position.

[andyapanel]

You may not have done anything wrong.
Apparently there is more acceptable play in a mini than a more modern cars because it is an old design.
However, younger mechanics brought up on Japanese and German engineering may feel play as untoward wear.
The trick is to find an MOT station that knows what is acceptable and what is dangerous.
Currently I use a Landrover garage; the old guy at the VW place who would MOT my cars retired.
Good luck

[imack]

You may not have done anything wrong.
Apparently there is more acceptable play in a mini than a more modern cars because it is an old design.
However, younger mechanics brought up on Japanese and German engineering may feel play as untoward wear.
The trick is to find an MOT station that knows what is acceptable and what is dangerous.
Currently I use a Landrover garage; the old guy at the VW place who would MOT my cars retired.
Good luck

Some designs of steering and suspension do have more free play than a modern car, but a Minis steering and suspension design isn't one of them. Classic mini steering, suspension and wheel bearings won't have any noticeable free play at any ball joint, bush or bearing when in good condition. Infant, they probably have less movement than most modern vehicles as they don't have the 'compliance' bushes as fitted to the majority of modern cars.

[sonscar]

Try the rocking with the brakes hard on.This should stop movement due to wheel bearings.Carefully check ball joints.Agree the mini should not have play by design.Steve..

[Midas Mk1]

You may not have done anything wrong.
Apparently there is more acceptable play in a mini than a more modern cars because it is an old design.
However, younger mechanics brought up on Japanese and German engineering may feel play as untoward wear.
The trick is to find an MOT station that knows what is acceptable and what is dangerous.
Currently I use a Landrover garage; the old guy at the VW place who would MOT my cars retired.
Good luck

No, play is play, regardless

I work on relatively high end cars, play is play and most have some by 3 years and require replacement control bushes..
Same for any car, classics should just be as tight.

Edited by Midas Mk1, 01 July 2024 - 02:08 AM.

[Spider]

Surely play in a wheel bearing will show up when rocking the wheel in all directions, not just at 3&9 o'clock. Presuming the track rod end and rack are OK, I'd be making sure the steering arm is tight on the hub. This will give free play in the3&9 o'clock position.

 

I agree with imack - doesn't sound like wheel bearings to me.

Steering related I'd say - check the rack, that it's tight in the body, the rod end and that the arm is tight on the hub.

[wilsonch]

Many thanks for all the advice.
The major wear plates are new
Teack Rod ends, ball joints, hub bearings, all rubbers on the arms, tie rods.
Not new, steering rack, hubs, cv joints.

But for a little context the car only has 15k miles on it, it sat for 4 years on a drive then 4 tear rebuild.

I'll try rebuilding and have another look, try with the brakes applied.
I did think that the hub nut could be bottoming out I'll try adding another washer.
Im clutching at straws but will try anything at the moment.

[sonscar]

Do not guess,get assistance to locate the actual fault.You may spend hours and £££ and still have a problem if you don't.Steve..

[wilsonch]

I am having another look at this.

I have measured between the face of the bearing and the start of the splines.

I am just pushing the hub onto the CV shaft here.  

front hub by Christopher Wilson, on Flickr

 

And also measured the disc where the splines have been 'smoothed' off.

front hub 2 by Christopher Wilson, on Flickr

 

this is less than the measurement above, these are new discs from mini spares, so tightening the hub nut will never force the disc into the bearings enough to clamp tight.

 

However i do appear to have made a small school boy error. looking at the haynes manual, I do not have fitted, the oil seal spacers that fit between the bearing and the inner oil seal.

My question about the spacer is. is this spacer only resting on the outer part of the bearing or does this spacer rest across the whole face of the inner bearing, like a big washer, this will give an extra 5mm or so.

 

Chris

Edited by wilsonch, 01 July 2024 - 06:33 PM.

[sonscar]

Are you measuring correctly?From the bearing to the start of the groove and not the start of the splines on the hub is what you need.Apologies if this is what you mean.the spacer behind the bearing at the back plays no part.Steve..

[wilsonch]

I have just taken the o/s apart and with just me pushing the cv forward and having pushed the bearing back there is 7mm between the face of the bearing and the start of the groove. Measuring the smoothed spline it's 7.5mm.
I am sure when there is more compression on the bearing that 7mm will increase so in effect the spline is hitting the cv shaft..... If that makes sense.

[wilsonch]

haynes hub fitting by Christopher Wilson, on Flickr

I hope this is clear.
paragraph 12 says insert drive shaft but do not fit split collar yet but first insert plain washer to the dimensions in fig 3.12.......is this correct? any one else do this ?
in the haynes manual fig 4.3 on page 10.4 does not show this extra washer.

chris

Edited by wilsonch, 02 July 2024 - 04:27 PM.

[wilsonch]

heres the car itself.

mini complete by Christopher Wilson, on Flickr