20 replies to this topic

[weef]

I read this topic with interest , mostly the bit about the workshops not moving with the times .

Notwithstanding the need to keep up with Health and Safety regulations most of these establishments are working on 60 plus years old vehicles.

Those of us who can, should think back to how the average workshop appeared then, not even the main agents were all that special and there were many more small independant outfits then, each employing 2 or 3 men and somebody in the office.

There was no diagnostic equipment, appart from your ears, no huge tool hutches that are larger than some London flats, all that was needed was your 5 tray cantivlever toolbox and if you went out to a breakdown you shut the lid, threw it in the back of the Land Rover, checked the tow rope was there and you were set.

Inspection pits were the norm, but most workshops did have a ramp as well.

So when you walk into a restoration workshop and look around and think they're in the past just remember there is no requirement for fancy equipment, there will be a box of "special tools" in the corner, no ammount of diagnostic gear will  beat a panel back into shape or lead fill a joint , its the skill of the operative your after, not a "complimentary free" coffee and a sit watching TV in their lounge while you wait.

 

I know repair cost are huge, but remember do not enter the classic vehicle movement  if you think you are going to turn a proffit on your investment when you are paying someone to do the repairs, indeed even when you carry out the work yourself many times you still end up on the wrong side.

Skills in all trades are in short supply, my experience is that a trade is looked down on so few youngsters are coming through , the older tradesmen cannot go on for ever and need their retirement and time to enjoy the fruits of their labours like everyone else and if there is no one there to take over there is little alternative but to shut shop.

 

This is my take on things having retired myself now having been in and out of the trade since the late 1960's.

[timmy850]

Thomas Classic and Modern are still looking for some staff to keep up with demand

https://www.facebook.com/classandmod

 

I'd love to change into some kind of mechanic/engine machining kind of career and work on minis for a living, but for me in my mid 30's with a family it's not that easy to relocate and start from the bottom as an apprentice. And now even if you could get trained up as a professional you'll never make enough money to be able to take on the workshop when the existing owner moves on in the near future. 

 

I don't know what the future will hold for us in Australia - will some younger people step up to take on the larger workshops and parts importers? Or will we see smaller home based workshops with a few specialists that can do tuning, engine assembly, mechanical work?

[roberts]

Interesting thread, and one I've been following with interest.

 

As many of you will know, I've seen the commercial side of the Mini industry every day through Optimise since 2008, manufacturing Classic Mini interiors. Like many other small Mini specialists, I've also been forced to downsize in order to survive.

 

Although many of the points raised in this thread are absolutely valid, I think most of them relate to the increasingly difficult environment for small businesses in the UK as a whole, rather than specifically explaining why there are now fewer Mini specialists than ever before.

 

Personally, I think the biggest reason is the Mini community itself.

 

Over the last 20 years, the Mini community has evolved. The way people use their Minis has changed, and the expectations of Mini owners have changed dramatically.

 

When you combine those changes with everything else that's already been mentioned - rising costs, increasing government expectations of small businesses, work based pensions, Brexit, COVID, inflation, higher employment costs and the ever-growing burden of running a small business - it makes perfect sense that we've ended up where we are today.

 

For me, there are three key reasons.

1. Firstly, the active Mini community is considerably smaller than it was 20 years ago. There are still plenty of passionate enthusiasts, but nowhere near the numbers there once were. Fewer active enthusiasts naturally means less demand for specialist businesses.
2. Secondly, Minis are no longer daily transport for most owners. They're weekend cars, show cars or occasional-use classics. That's fantastic for preserving the cars, but it also means fewer servicing requirements, fewer breakdowns and fewer replacement parts being needed compared to when thousands of Minis were being driven every single day.
3. Finally, and I think this is probably the biggest change of all, the expectations of the Mini community have increased enormously.

For at least the last decade, Mini owners have expected higher quality products, higher quality workmanship and a much higher level of customer service from specialists.

 

That's not a criticism of the community - I think it's a good thing - but it has fundamentally changed the industry.

 

Historically (and still to this day really), the Mini has always been one of the cheapest classics to buy, run, modify and restore. The market naturally demanded inexpensive parts and affordable repairs because many owners were simply trying to keep their daily driver on the road.

 

The problem is that cheap rarely equals quality, whether that's in the parts themselves or the level of service a business can realistically provide.

 

This is where smaller Mini specialists have found themselves trapped.

 

Small profit margins don't necessarily mean a business isn't successful, but they do mean there's very little money left to invest back into the business. New machinery, improved workshops, better equipment, apprentices, staff training, modern software and everything else required to move with the times all cost significant amounts of money.

 

It's easy to say some specialists have been left behind, but many simply haven't had the spare capital to invest. They've spent years keeping prices low because that's what the market expected, only to find the market has now moved on and expects premium quality, modern facilities and exceptional service.

 

Larger specialists have generally been able to make that transition because they've had the scale and resources to invest. Smaller specialists often haven't.

 

That brings us back to my first point. With a considerably smaller Mini community than there was 20 years ago, many small specialists simply can't justify investing tens or even hundreds of thousands of pounds to modernise a business for a shrinking market.

 

That leaves many of them with two realistic choices:

1. Close.
2. Downsize.

That's exactly what we've seen over recent years, and I think we'll continue to see it.

 

Ironically, I don't think the Mini scene has ever had such a strong selection of genuinely high-quality specialists. There may be fewer of them, but the standard of products, craftsmanship and customer service has never been higher. That's simply where the market has evolved.

 

Using my own business as an example, I now produce interiors that I only dreamed of making 15 years ago. Downsizing Optimise and deliberately becoming a lower-volume, higher-quality manufacturer was never part of the original plan. At the time it felt like a backwards step.

 

Looking back, it was probably the best business decision I've ever made.

 

It allowed me to focus entirely on quality rather than quantity, and in many ways that's exactly what the Mini community now values.

 

I don't think Mini specialists disappeared first. I think the Mini community changed first, and the specialist industry has simply evolved alongside it.

Edited by roberts, 05 July 2026 - 04:29 PM.

[Ethel]

I think that's on the money. If you own a Mini now you're either going to pay to realise the sort of values they can reach or you'll take on the work yourself because it's just too expensive when you could pick up a modern daily runabout for less.

[weef]

I think this recent article in PMM generally puts forward a good view and sums things up.   Longtime workshop professional Dan got in touch with PMM recently to express his dismay at workshops expanding at the expense of the values upon which they were founded. 

For most people, a garage is built on trust long before it’s built on bricks and ramps. Traditionally, independent garages grew through and depended on their reputation. Word of mouth was all they had to win new customers and that relied on handling customers honestly and assuring them that the person handing you back the keys actually cared about the outcome, not just the invoice total. 

Yet across the motor trade, I believe many garages have drifted away from those foundations, often without even realising it. Expanding your business, setting systematic processes and targets, improving your branding, all whilst carried out with the best intentions, can risk demolishing the fabric of the small family business. The mindset that provided a solid base to grow on is often reduced to little more than a sign above the door. Inside, however, customers find something more corporate and, in my view, far less personal. 

 

I previously worked for a garage that proudly presented itself as a high-end, premium operation. It had a smart reception, polished processes, strong branding – all the hallmarks of a modern, upmarket workshop. The business started life as a family concern, sown from the same honest principles as most independents. As the business grew, however, something changed.  

Losing sight of the customer 

Decisions that were once made with the customer at the centre became decisions driven by structure, pricing matrices, and a need to justify overheads. Experience, which is arguably the most valuable asset in any workshop, became something to bill for rather than something to use in the customer’s favour. Here’s the thing though: Experience should reduce cost, not inflate it! 

Let me describe to you a real-world example that, unfortunately, became rather common. A vehicle arrives in limp mode. As technicians, we’d seen the fault ten or twenty times before. We knew full well what the likely outcome would be: An oil service, an oil dilution reset, and the vehicle would be back on the road. 

 

Instead of using that experience to resolve the issue quickly and fairly, the process demanded a paid diagnostic assessment — typically £125. Only after this would the customer be informed that the vehicle required a service and resets. By the time the job was complete, the bill would often be approaching £400. 

The justification was always the same: investment in training, tooling, and systems has to be recovered somewhere. 

I don’t disagree that training and tooling matter – they absolutely do. But I strongly disagree that the cost of that investment should be passed to the customer in situations where experience already provides the answer. 

This is where professionalism and procedure don’t always overlap. 

 

Following procedure or a set process certainly has its place. Following a diagnostic process, for instance, is intended to protect customers and businesses alike from individual error or oversight. But when processes override common sense, they surely stop serving their purpose. Charging a customer for a diagnostic path when you are already certain what the end result will be might earn you bonus points within the four walls of the garage, but externally it erodes trust.  

Customers aren’t naïve. They may not understand fault codes or oil dilution values, but they do understand fairness and they certainly remember how a business made them feel. 

Finding a new formula for success 

At my current place of work, the philosophy is different, and it feels like a return to something the trade is at risk of losing for good. 

Experience is used as a tool to reduce cost, not inflate it. If we know the likely fix, we explain it clearly, confirm it sensibly and get the customer back on the road quickly – often for less than half the price they might expect elsewhere. 

Yes, we still invest in training. Yes, we still buy tooling. But we see those as the foundations for doing the job properly – not as a justification to overcomplicate straightforward repairs. 

This isn’t an attack on growth, professionalism or success. Garages should evolve. They should invest. They should improve. But evolution shouldn’t mean abandoning the principles that built the business in the first place. 

Independent garages have always had one advantage over main dealers and large chains and that’s our capacity for humanity. Humans are not uniform creatures and nor are their needs. And whilst many will say that processes are designed to account for just that – finding a different outcome based on each individual’s needed – there must also be an option for circumventing process and procedure. Flexibility and experience must play their part if we are to continue to serve our customers well. The ability to say, “We’ve seen this before, let’s sort it properly and fairly” is simple but important.  

If the trade loses that ability, it doesn’t just lose its identity – it loses the trust that keeps customers coming back. So perhaps it’s time we ask ourselves whether our experience is being used to serve the customer… or simply to justify the invoice. 

 

.

[Ethel]

A lot is out of the hands of independant garages. Cars needs less maintenance & main dealers have customers stitched up more than before with longer warranties. Though there could be an at least temporary improvement as EVs & road tax changes make older car ownership more attractive.