31 replies to this topic

[urbantricker]

Hi,

I have just recently had my Mini rolling roaded and got a lot less BHP than I expected. I bought a 1380 with ported head from ebay, with the description as follows:

1380 mini engine and box

just been checked through with new central oil pick up fitted

The head has been stamped originally with a number but some berk has stamped their name over it so i can'nt tell who originally machined the head.The porting has been done to a very high standard my local engine tuner thinks it is a longman or downton head.

The block is 1300 gt or mk3 S it has a 1275 tag on the back .It has a tufrided crank, strapped centre main and innocenti rods(fully balanced) ,Power max forged pistons, mini spares steel flywheel and backplate, orange diapham,the cam is a 285piper , lighted crank pully, duplex timing chain.

I have a similiar engine in my 69 cooper , built by our local mini tuning guy, apart from the head is better on the one i am selling and mine is only 1310 which produced 96bhp on brian slarks rollers on a 1 3/4 su.

I am selling this engine to fund my mighty mini race car motor which has to be a spi cooper and now do not have a car to put it in.

I used this engine for a few months with its old head (standard S )and it produced 87bhp on the rollers, with it new head i was looking for more like 100bhp.The engine was stripped to install a central pick up pipe and our local mini tuning guy went through it and rebuilt it.

Good Luck and happy Bidding

On 31-Jul-06 at 11:20:26 BST, seller added the following information:

The head alone cost me £350.00 second hand and is in excellent condition.

The gearbox is standard but in good working order.

The flywheel and back plate are about £160.00 and are like new.The clutch plate in new.

Will fit any mini although it would be worth upgrading the carbs to atleast 1/34 su or a webber .

I also bought a weber 45 DCOE which when I got it rolling roaded was all set up properly.

The result I got on the rolling road was 64BHP, which I am not really happy about, I was expecting a lot more.

Where so much of the time doing the rolling road was spent taking the weber apart and sorting the jets and choke on that, he didnt actually touch anything in the engine, eg tappets

What is the easiest way to find out if the engine is a 1380, and can anyone else think of any more reasons for the lack of BHP. I thought I would ask on here rather than spending loads more money on th rolling road again!

[Jammy]

Sounds like a boggo 1275 to me.

Only way to find out what head work has been done and engine size is to take the head off and measure the bore and stroke. Then you'll also be able to look at the ports and see what size valves are fitted.

[Jimmyarm]

The easiest (and only) way to find out if its a 1380 is to take the head off and measure the bores.

Is that figure at the wheels ? Even if it is it seems a tad light for an engine with that spec unless you are suffering from some massive transmission losses. What sort of torque is it producing ?

Didnt the RR operator say anything about it ? You would think he would mention it, especially if it was a mini specialist....

Edit: If you find out its not a 1380 then you can claim your money back from the guy who sold it to you.

Edited by Jimmyarm, 05 December 2006 - 04:06 PM.

[Bungle]

is that 64 at the fly wheel or wheels ?

[Sprocket]

As a basis for reference, my injection 1399 is 78bhp and funily enough 78lbft with the kent 274 cam 2degrees out, wrong ECU, standard unported big valve head, and still had the cat fitted as well, with only 1000 miles on it, so the rigns were still a bit tight.

64 is a bit pants if its got the piper 285 and ported head.

Ignition could well be all wrong for the cam.

I think the webber is letting you down to be honest. Its more of a glory carb in my eyes.

May well be 1380 but there is a big question mark on the head. What was said in the description is purely speculation.

As for the cam, well, does it idle lumpy and have no guts below 2000rpm, if so it may well be

[fikus01]

cam timing could be very off also!! as the others have said only way to find out what you've got is to start taking parts off to see what you've got!!

i had a boggo std 1275 + stg 1 kit and made 68bhp@wheels at a respected trusted dyno!!

where are you in this wonderfull country?? maybe 1 of the guys mite spare some time to have a look at it!! also where did u get it setup??

[minislapper]

Unless someone can supply paperwork and other evidence with an engine to prove what work has been done etc, always treat with caution!!

As said above, it looks like it's time to start taking it to bits to see what you've actually bought !

[urbantricker]

Is that figure at the wheels ? Even if it is it seems a tad light for an engine with that spec unless you are suffering from some massive transmission losses. What sort of torque is it producing ?

Yes that is at the wheels, regarding the torque I am not sure because he took so long sorting the weber out etc I didnt actually get a rolling road print out, I just saw 64 BHP come up on the screen and he said that looks like all we are going to get.

Didnt the RR operator say anything about it ? You would think he would mention it, especially if it was a mini specialist....

Thats a good point, he didnt mention anything, apparently he does specialise on Mini's. All I have heard is good things about him.

The only thing he did mention is that sometimes you can put a cam in and it just doesnt work, so maybe this could be the reason. The guy I bought it from said it had 87BHP with the standard head, he never had it rolling roaded with the modified head.

Edit: If you find out its not a 1380 then you can claim your money back from the guy who sold it to you.

I hope I can, I bought it off ebay, but the guy seemed genuine

is that 64 at the fly wheel or wheels ?

At the wheels

As for the cam, well, does it idle lumpy and have no guts below 2000rpm, if so it may well be
cam timing could be very off also!! as the others have said only way to find out what you've got is to start taking parts off to see what you've got!!

It seems to idle fine and picks up speed fairly quickly up to about 3000 rpm, but then after that it doesnt seem like there is any pull.

where are you in this wonderfull country?? maybe 1 of the guys mite spare some time to have a look at it!! also where did u get it setup??

I am near Portsmouth in Hampshire! That would be very handy! I got it done by a company called "Solent Race Engines" I cant find a website for them, but all my friends have said that the guy does an excellent job.

nless someone can supply paperwork and other evidence with an engine to prove what work has been done etc, always treat with caution!!

I have emailed the guy asking him to show me the rolling road results he got with the standard head, so hopefully I will get that

As said above, it looks like it's time to start taking it to bits to see what you've actually bought !

I think I will

After reading all the comments I think it must be something with the head or the cam, that seems to make the most sense, if I can find a standard 1275 head then I will try that on there and see how it goes.

Cheers for all your comments...

[overboost]

Dude, your worrying over nothing.... 64bhp at the wheels will be about 85-90 at the flywheel (which most people who have a car rolling roaded will tell you about).

With regard to the cam not having any guts under 2000rpm, again dont worry probably due to the profile of the camshaft and the power band its peak power comes in a lot higher up the rev range then standard).

As long as the car feels responsive, goes well on the road, sod your rolling road print out and enjoy it, chances are its fine, however anytime you have a rolling road dyno run or tune up carried out, you should always get the print out, go back he may have forgot to print you a copy out.

Edited by overboost, 06 December 2006 - 01:17 PM.

[TOMMO0302]

It wasn't even a print out by the sounds of things...
....have you driven other minis before? If so, how does it feel in comparison. I do agree with the statement 'if it feels good to drive, don't worry about the RR Results' in general, but NOT if i had bought an engine that wasn't as described!

[overboost]

Fair point, I think however that somewhere its crossed wires. If the seller said it was 80 odd BHP, he was probably refering to flyhweel figures, and if you were to look at the flywheel figure of the engine now, it would be slightly more then what the seller stated, so I think everything is in fact, in order.

[TimS]

You also need to find out what type of rolling road the guy you went to has. Some of the old water resistant dynos can read quite far out. For example its well know that Peter Baldwins rollers read high. This mixed with the difference of wheels/ flywheel figures could make it out enough. It is always a good idea to get the printout and then it explained to you.

[Jammy]

True, however, the seller said it was 87 bananas with a standard head, whether that be at the flywheel or not, so with a ported head it should be significantly more than this, especially if its a Longman or Downton head!!

Assuming you are losing the typical 30% through the drivetrain, then 64bhp at the wheels would have been acceptable, if it was 87bhp at the flywheel, however, as I say, with a modified head you'd expect both those figures to rise quite a lot!

Did you get a print out for your rolling road session?

Couple of things to consider...

Did you get a gearbox included with the engine? If the gearbox is worn/old you'll lose more than the typical 30% through the drivetrain, which could account for a low power output at the wheels.

It sounds like the webber still wasn't quite set up correctly, which again could account for some power loss.

[fikus01]

dizzy advance curve wrong!!

[Jimmyarm]

Take it to Slarkes in Amesbury and get him to do a power run for you (about £30 I think) . Neil will be able to tell you if he thinks its not right.