31 replies to this topic

[urbantricker]

With regard to the cam not having any guts under 2000rpm, again dont worry probably due to the profile of the camshaft and the power band its peak power comes in a lot higher up the rev range then standard).

Well the guy who did the RR, said to me it picks up speed fine to begin with but then after 4000rpm it doesnt seem to have any more power.

It wasn't even a print out by the sounds of things...
....have you driven other minis before? If so, how does it feel in comparison. I do agree with the statement 'if it feels good to drive, don't worry about the RR Results' in general, but NOT if i had bought an engine that wasn't as described!

I first had a 998cc mini which got me around I then upgraded to a 1275cc and really noticed an increase in power. When I upgraded to this new 1380 I thought I would see a similar increase from the 998 to the 1275 but it felt pretty much the same which is why I am worried about these results.

I also drive a BMW 318i which my brothers 1380 (similar spec) can easily beat. But when driving my mini and the BMW i dont feel much difference...

Cheers...

[fikus01]

to me something seems amis!! only way to find out is to start removing bits i guess!!

the dizzy advance curve will be totally wrong if a 998 unit has just been chucked in there and that will defo hurt bhp!!

see what size the bores are, then measure the cam lift on the pushrod!! measure the ports and valves on the head!!

if it gives the right cam lift and has the right sized bores then id move to cam timing!!

depends how much work you are looking for really!! mite be simple, mite not!!

[urbantricker]

Did you get a print out for your rolling road session?

No i didnt

Did you get a gearbox included with the engine? If the gearbox is worn/old you'll lose more than the typical 30% through the drivetrain, which could account for a low power output at the wheels.

It did, whats the easiest way to tell if the gearbox is worn?

Take it to Slarkes in Amesbury and get him to do a power run for you (about £30 I think) . Neil will be able to tell you if he thinks its not right.

That is quite a way away, I want to do as much as I can do myself before spending any money again.

dizzy advance curve wrong!!

He did mention what the angle (or something) on the diustributor was meant to be, he said it should have come with the disstributor when I bought it.

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...em=150040983099

That is the link to the one I bought....

[fikus01]

have a look on aldens website and see what that dizzy would suit!!

[urbantricker]

Ok I will, but surely adjusting the distributor wont make 30 BHP difference?

[fikus01]

if at 4000rpm the timing is firing exceptionally late then yes you will lose lots of power!!

[Jimmyarm]

I dont want to slate the RR you took it too, but they clearly didnt do their job properly, if there where issues with the timing/advance curve and the dizzy you where using then he should have said that there wasnt any point in going further because he wouldnt be able to tune it properly.

You could have done what they have with a colourtune and a selection of jets.

If you are loosing power after 3000rpm then their is clearly an issue with the fuelling and the timing. If the dizzy didnt have the right curve then the operator wouldn't have been able to get the fuelling right after that point, so you have essetially wasted the money getting it RR'd, the operator should have told you this.

Its going to have to go back to a RR once you get the dizzy sorted anyway and Slarkes are known and respected in the Mini world. Neil knows what he is doing with A Series engines.

Personally I would take it to a known A series tuner and ask his opinion on it before I did anything else. You could be chucking money at it for the wrong reasons.

Edited by Jimmyarm, 06 December 2006 - 03:33 PM.

[Jammy]

I'll add my voice to those saying you need to at least get a 1275 distributor in there. Unfortunately once you do that you'll probably have to have another rolling road session, however the place you took it should do it FOC considering they shouldn't have touched it with the wrong dizzy in there anyway.

Any wear in the gearbox will usually present itself as difficulty in selecting gears. However I now think the dizzy is a more likely cause of the power loss.

[urbantricker]

Yeh he did seem like a bit of an idiot haha!

Are you saying the distributor I bought is the wrong one...?

[Jimmyarm]

I cant get on Ebay at work to see it but I am going to say yes !

A 123 dizzy would be useful for you as it has in built adjustment for the advance curve, which the RR operator can play with when you take it back to get the right one. I think Aldon can make them with a curve to suit your spec but as you arent fully aware of what is going on in the head department it may be better to go down the adjustable route.

They aint cheap though, think the 123's are about £200.

Try asking the guy you got the engine off what he was running it with.....

[overboost]

SC Parts sell the 123 distributor for £190....ads usually in the mini mags or visit their website.

http://www.scparts.co.uk

Edited by overboost, 06 December 2006 - 06:13 PM.

[Jammy]

Just to throw another spanner in the works:

The Aldon distributor you bought was the 100AY, which is for an A series. This is what Aldon say about the 100AY:

A non-vacuum distributor, to suit most tuned engines, using camshafts such as Piper 270/285, Kent 266/276 and 286.

I'd say you have the correct dizzy there. However, I'm not sure whether Aldon dizzy come with a basic advance curve already, or whether you have to have the advance curve tuned to your engine once installed.

[Sprocket]

I think people can easily get confuse as to what power figure is being banded about. If you didnt get a print out, the question i have to ask is why.I recon that power figure is a fly wheel figure. IMHO.

Was it an analogue dyno, IE a meter on the wall with a needle that swings from left to right. You wont get a print out. Analogue dynos measure the at wheel figure, then a calculation is used with some far from acurate figures to give a flywheel figure. Usualy inflated.

Or, Was it a digital dyno where the read out was on a computor screen. Digital dynos measure the at wheel figure, plotting on the screen as it runs. At the very end of the power run at the max rpm, the clutch is dipped and the rollers are allowed to coast to a stop. This measures the drag of the transmission. The computer then extrapolates the at flywheel figure and produces a graph of torque and power. This is 'usualy' the figure that is spoken of. These are far more acurate than the analogue dynos. A print out is normaly available.

As for the cam, the 285 should come in around 2500 to 3000 and go all the way up to 7500 with max power some where at 6500 to 7000

Something amiss.

Just to throw another spanner in the works:

The Aldon distributor you bought was the 100AY, which is for an A series. This is what Aldon say about the 100AY:

A non-vacuum distributor, to suit most tuned engines, using camshafts such as Piper 270/285, Kent 266/276 and 286.

I'd say you have the correct dizzy there. However, I'm not sure whether Aldon dizzy come with a basic advance curve already, or whether you have to have the advance curve tuned to your engine once installed.

An Aldon dizzy is tuned to the cam shaft as its the duration of the cam shaft that usualy alters the main requirements of the ignition.

The tuning of the advance curve is already done. Why else would you buy an Aldon dizzy. They have done all the hard work for you.


Oh and drop the webber and fit an SU.(runs for cover from the Webber purists)

Edited by Mini Sprocket, 06 December 2006 - 10:26 PM.

[fikus01]

Oh and drop the webber and fit an SU.(runs for cover from the Webber purists)

hehe oh that did make me laugh!! either its a topic in the vizzard bible or its a seperate book but i've read smething along the lines of a chapter/book titled "economy tuning your dcoe webber"

im not a purist, but i have rules, if its a weekend/track car its a webber, if its a daily drive then its an su. many reasons for it, economy of the su without fettling, the noise and instant grunt of a webber on a track or b-road!

[urbantricker]

Or, Was it a digital dyno where the read out was on a computor screen. Digital dynos measure the at wheel figure, plotting on the screen as it runs. At the very end of the power run at the max rpm, the clutch is dipped and the rollers are allowed to coast to a stop. This measures the drag of the transmission. The computer then extrapolates the at flywheel figure and produces a graph of torque and power. This is 'usualy' the figure that is spoken of. These are far more acurate than the analogue dynos. A print out is normaly available.

Yes it was a digital thing that I read whilst he was doing it.

hehe oh that did make me laugh!! either its a topic in the vizzard bible or its a seperate book but i've read smething along the lines of a chapter/book titled "economy tuning your dcoe webber"

im not a purist, but i have rules, if its a weekend/track car its a webber, if its a daily drive then its an su. many reasons for it, economy of the su without fettling, the noise and instant grunt of a webber on a track or b-road!

Yeh its a track day / weekend car so i think i will stick with the weber. It makes a great noise

Also....

I have contacted the guy who sold me the engine and he has said he will get a copy of the rolling road results in the post, so I will get this up as soon as I receive it!