23 replies to this topic

[binge]

Right, ive asked this question on the 16V mini forum. But the favourite answer from them guys is "SEARCH".
Which I have, And not really found anything worth reading. I seem to beable to find bits of information here and there. But nothing of a good read on exactly what is needed to put a Metro Subframe into a Mini.

Im still completely unsure of which route to take. Wheather to Put a Metro Subframe into the Mini. Or wheather to adapt a Mini subframe to house a K series Engine.

I can buy a watsons frame, but they are in the region of £1000 for the kit. and I really dont want to spend that sort of money on somthing I could probably knock together at work with my Manager from an existing subframe.


What I am after is a DECENT description of how to put a Metro Subframe into a Mini.

Are the Tower mounts compatible, or do they need moving on the Tro subframe? if so, Do they need cutting and re-welding else where, Or are there such thing as adaptor plates?

Lower subby mounts, Bracebars? What need adapting. What does it need adapting to?


PLEASE can somebody shed some light on this for me. Ive got my Engine, Im slowley getting the bits together to Put a new HG in it, And do all the Servicing to it. But Before I start sourcing things like Suspension and Drive shafts, Brakes and wheels. I Need to decide which frame to use. And without knowing the ins and outs of the Work involved, I cant really make this descision from my current knowledge about the conversion.


Thanks for reading



<|ben|>

[Jammy]

to be honest, I'm pretty sure no one on TMF has adapted a Tro frame into a mini yet. If I was going to do this myself, I'd cut the towers off a mini subframe, and make the rest from box section.

Most people that do these kind of projects just get all the bits together and figure it out themselves, no one uses step by step instructions!

[Woody]

OK , i fitted a metro subframe complete with all the running gear into my mini van , i cut off the wings etc from the "A" panels forward including the inner wings forward of the shock mounts
I bought the "watsons rally" plates that bolt from the mini shock mounts onto the metro subframe (where the displacers would have been ) these lined the whole lot up for me and only cost £50 delivered
i cut a hole in the bulkhead for the metro steering rack to poke through
i then bolted in the metro subframe
and it sat like that for ages (presure of work)
so i sent it to a mates place and he is fabricating the lower subframe mounts (from the bottom of the metro frame to the lower bulkhead) , brace bars (from the top of the inner wing to the front of the subframe ) and some towers made from box that weld to the metro subframe and fit up to the origional mini tower bolts
he is also : shortening the steering colum (metro one is too long but needed to fit the colum stalks etc)
fitting a rad , and running the metro wiring loom , modding it as he goes to suit the mini lights etc
the front will need to be leanthened a touch to fit and i will need coilovers
but when it runns it will be standard metro engine, box, injection,wiring , drivshafts etc etc
and as i started with the metro GTI 1400cc it should go well

[maph2]

i find it very hard to believe that you didn't find anyting of use on the 16v forum

[binge]

i find it very hard to believe that you didn't find anyting of use on the 16v forum

Not so much "not of use". but nothing really along the lines of what Woody has just written there. ^^

Theres lots of info, But just all in little bits. And I cant seem to get the whole picture into my head.


Woody, your route sounds interesting. Any pictures at all?



I guess im just going to have to do as Jammy says and gather all the bits and pieces first.


But before I do anything, i really need to get this engine running really.

[Retro_10s]

Kseries-

Potentially, this can be the easiest conversion to do, currently it seems there are two ways to achieve getting a K-series into the mini and It will fit a Roundnose mini with and extended front, or a Clubman with the lower valance slightly modified.

1. Install the engine on a K series subframe.
**The K-series subframe WILL need modifying in order for it to fit onto the mini:
**The rear lower mounts need extending
**The rear upper mountings, often these are constructed to bolt onto the shock absorber (damper) mounting bolts, (or you could fabricate tower mounts to attatch 'as per' the minis original subframe).

2. Make your own frame using a Mini one as a base or starting from scratch.
**LOTS of custom fabrication of parts is required.
**Mini brake assemblies and suspension systems can be kept
**You WILL need to get some custom drive shafts made up which aint cheap but if you want to run 10's well worth it.

Handy hints:
**The Kseries 1.4 ECU is capable of running the 1.6 AND the 1.8 version of the K-series. So upgrading is an option to bear in mind when thinking about size of engine.
**If cutting up a mini subframe to modify and take a Kseries. Brace the subframe around the tower mounts and tiebar mounts to stop them flexing, which hopefully means it will fit back on properly when done!

In my opinion the 2nd fitting option here is much harder but more attractive to me...

[fikus01]

i would just like to add the rover ecu is also meant to be very good at adapting to new conditions. it can take upto 500 miles but in reality thats just 1 drive to newquay and back.

[Peskett]

I've some side mounts kicking around that could be used as a templates if needed. from my first k series mini. But to be totaly honest im finding the mini subframe so much easyier to worrk around! Just remember you have problems with rear track,wheel selection, rear engine stabaliser, gear linkage and bulkead as well i found. fo far i'm much happier with my a series frame creation. As i've had none of those problems

Gives you an idea what been done to the metro subframe by watsons


And the original way that watsons used to do it


I'll have a look see if i can find the plates and get some measurements.

[nag1_uk]

Handy hints:
**The Kseries 1.4 ECU is capable of running the 1.6 AND the 1.8 version of the K-series. So upgrading is an option to bear in mind when thinking about size of engine.

Just my opinion on this.
I have seen this said several times and I do not believe it fully. The ecu might well run the engine, but I do not feel you will get the most out of it. If you run the actual ecu designed for the size of engine I think you will get a better result.

At one point we ran a 1.4 on a 1.6 ecu and it ran but did not go well at all! The engine was always running too rich.
I know this is not exactly what your saying but hopefully you will get my point.

Remember when dealing with the K series you NEED the ecu, 5as imobiliser and keyfob from the same car, ideally the one you got the engine from. If you get the electrical components from different cars rover can link them together but this costs.


Also if anyone wants a 1.4l engine mine is still for sale £450 inc gearbox and electrics. THe engine came from a 03 plate rover 25. Its only done about 11K and goes well as the people who went on the first germany run will know!

Mike

[bigandy]

I built a metro for a friend using a 1.8, running a 1.4 ecu. The engine was completely standard except for K&N filter, performance backbox and FSE pressure regulator. The only times it didn't run quite right was at high revs on a cold engine when it would hold back past about 5k revs. We also had the engine rolling roaded and made 2 bhp up on book figures for the 1.8. I agree you get more out of an engine running the right ecu, but the difference is marginal, and when it means you can use an R65 box instead of a PG1. Its also saves having to pay out for emerald, custom flywheels etc in order to use the right timing marks

[bigandy]

Also, the cost of having the ecu 5as and immobiliser linked is minimal compared to the total cost of such a project (£100 max) another option is to have the ecu 'flashed' so no feed from the immobiliser is needed (£50 max). The ecu's are interchangeable, in that all engines use the same plugs (there are two types, depending on age of the donor vehicle). But as said earlier, if you want to run a 1.8 on a pg1 box, u need a custom flywheel, or custom ecu as flywheels are different sizes, and have different timing marks on them.

Back to the original point about 16vmini club - Everything you asked has been asked a hundred times before, and all the info is there. You have to understand, a website like that gets a lot of dreamers, who've seen a feature in an magazine and want to find out more. The forum would get bogged down with hundreds of posts covering all the same material if every such enquiry was answered. I agree the search function isn't perfect, but expect to spend at least 3 or 4 evenings looking at previous posts, build diaries etc before finding the really useful info

[mic]

when i first started looking into this i found the 'go search' attutude in 16vminiclub annoying, but now ive started an been in there quite a bit recently (now my 2nd home ) i realise its even MORE annoying when people do ask the same question over and over again...... the more you read, the more you find and it really is all there.

the 1st thing you want to ask yourself is can you weld? this straight away should answer the question of which subframe to use. if you have no fabrication skills, save yourself time and money

id suggest to ANYONE who thinks about this to go to your local scrappy and SEE FOR YOURSELF what a metro subframe looks like, see where the engine sits etc etc. this will answer some questions that you may not find an answer to. things became much clearer to me when i had the engine/subby etc infront of the shell!

i dont understand why people who have either NOT done this conversion before, or helped someone, feel they have confidence to answer questions about it? it would be so much easier to say 'go ask .............. what he did' or 'go look in 16vminiclub'........
anyone who hasnt experienced it are basically cut and paste someone elses work or repeating what someone else said from 'the last time'. gets on my tits.

for example: **The K-series subframe WILL need modifying in order for it to fit onto the mini:

no it wont. i know this because ive got a K series subframe sat infront of my mini. it needs a couple of mounting brackets to hold it in place, but it doesnt need modifying. the only thing close to a 'mod' is to weld 2 towers on the top. but you dont even need them to make it fit, they are for strenghtening purposes.

best advice to give someone on K series is to talk to someone who has already done it or in the process. or listen to people on 16v website

my 10p worth

[Jammy]

for example: **The K-series subframe WILL need modifying in order for it to fit onto the mini:

no it wont. i know this because ive got a K series subframe sat infront of my mini. it needs a couple of mounting brackets to hold it in place, but it doesnt need modifying. the only thing close to a 'mod' is to weld 2 towers on the top. but you dont even need them to make it fit, they are for strenghtening purposes.

LOL! Don't want to get into an arguement or anything, but surely, if your welding two new towers, and therefore two new mounting points onto the frame then your modifying it? And therefore the K series won't fit onto a mini without modification?

[maph2]

i find it very hard to believe that you didn't find anyting of use on the 16v forum

Not so much "not of use". but nothing really along the lines of what Woody has just written there. ^^
Theres lots of info, But just all in little bits. And I cant seem to get the whole picture into my head.

Back to the original point about 16vmini club - Everything you asked has been asked a hundred times before, and all the info is there. You have to understand, a website like that gets a lot of dreamers, who've seen a feature in an magazine and want to find out more. The forum would get bogged down with hundreds of posts covering all the same material if every such enquiry was answered. I agree the search function isn't perfect, but expect to spend at least 3 or 4 evenings looking at previous posts, build diaries etc before finding the really useful info

which i what i did when planning my 16v project

[Geehawk]

i find it very hard to believe that you didn't find anyting of use on the 16v forum

Not so much "not of use". but nothing really along the lines of what Woody has just written there. ^^
Theres lots of info, But just all in little bits. And I cant seem to get the whole picture into my head.

Back to the original point about 16vmini club - Everything you asked has been asked a hundred times before, and all the info is there. You have to understand, a website like that gets a lot of dreamers, who've seen a feature in an magazine and want to find out more. The forum would get bogged down with hundreds of posts covering all the same material if every such enquiry was answered. I agree the search function isn't perfect, but expect to spend at least 3 or 4 evenings looking at previous posts, build diaries etc before finding the really useful info

which i what i did when planning my 16v project

It would have been great to have had all the information thats available now, when I did my conversion 5 years ago.

Thats why I documented my build in full, to hopefully help others. I used to get and answer a number of emails every week from interested parties, many of whom are now driving or building K series Minis.

Since the 16Vmini club arrived in its new form, those emails have tailed off to basically nothing. So either people are not interested anymore or they are getting the answers they want from the forum.

As said above, there is nothing more annoying than reading posts from people who obviously have not done even the simplest of research. Im my experience most people who ask such questions rarely go on to actually start a build of their own.