37 replies to this topic

[Plattapuslikesrice]

Dear Knowledgeable Mini Cooper Enthusiasts,

Ladies and Gentlemen, my name is Jesse Peters and I live in Baltimore, MD USA. I am very interested in purchasing a Classic Mini because of it's absolute appeal - it's beautiful, maneuverable, practical to self maintenance, and within my budget. It seems like a very appealing car to me overall. I drove the new 'supermini' made by BMW the other day and I was very impressed, but as a college student.......you know sad.gif......but the classic mini smile.gif? I know there are some diehard classic mini fans here and I'd like to ask the whole Mini community about the crash safety of the beloved Classic Mini with modifications such as roll cage, new seats, side impact bars, etc. Any suggestions would be great and I would appreciate feedback as this is the pivotal factor in my purchase of the Classic Mini. I would not mind importing one from a foreign country and driving right hand if need be. If you could sort of quantify your safety speculations and give examples, I would appreciate that. I haven't been able to find much definitive information on this subject using the clunky American google.com, but if it exists please forgive my superfluous inquiry. Thank you very much for your time. 'Let's Motor.' Sincerely, Jesse Peters.

P.S. The type of driving I will be doing will be city driving with all types of cars and some highway time. I noticed that the new Mini has airbags coming out of everywhere and it scored a safety rating of 4/5.......

[mic]

not sure i know really what your asking BUT if its about the safety of crashing a mini i advise you NOT to do it. it will probably hurt. rollcages and the rest of it is a useful aid, but if you hit something at 60mph in a small metal box im sure you will know about it.

that answer the question?

Edited by mic, 10 July 2007 - 07:41 AM.

[The Matt]

As with a lot of calssic cars, safety will be compromised in comparison with newer vehicles.

You can easily fit a roll cage, with side impact bars to a mini, it'll probably cost (over here) around £600 for a very good roll cage and side impact bars.

I think the biggest factor with a minis safety is its size compared to other vehicles (particularly in comparison with the average US driver's SUV etc.). Roll cages are all well and good, but you MUST ensure that you have them correctly fitted and also correctly padded, otherwide in the event of a crash, they can do more harm than good (banging your head on a nice 2" tube when you have an impact is going to seriously hurt).

In general, minis are small, fun cars, which do have a compromised level of safety in comparison to some more modern vehicles.

[minimarco]

mini's are stronger than they look. because it is so light, it doesn't crumple upon itself like heavier modern cars does. (eg: the BMW "supermini", the biggest oxymoron since rap music) having said that, most SUV's bumpers are about the height of your head when you sit in a mini. so....side impact beams are not going to help much. just drive carefully, i find it easier to get out of trouble in a mini than less agile cars.

maryland is on.....the east coast? so it should be alot easier to get cars from the uk

[biggav]

As i understand it, the only minis alowed to be imported to the USA are over 25 years old so you will be looking at 1960's/70's crash technology which was non existent.

I have seen a few "newer mini's" which have been cloned (ringed) with old paperwork to make them appear older to get them in to the US.

therefore, there are a few over there with side impact bars and drivers airbags but if you hit a hummer head on they will be as much use as a chocolate tea pot.

[Ethel]

I'd say if you really are going to hit something in a mini then head on is the way to do it!

The vast majority of the weight is up front so there's not much behind you to cause the passenger compartment to to crumple in on you.

Sadly, I know of two fatalities that befell Mini Drivers (not to be confused with any actress, who I trust is still very much with us). One went under an articulated truck taking the roof off the car and the other was a side impact, the upper seat belt mounting striking his temple taking the blame.

From my own experiences, I've driven head on into the back of another car at around 30 mph, oops, and walked away comfortably thanks to the other cars crumple zone structure. Dropped nose first in to a ditch at a slightly lower speed - an excellent way to remove rusty bodywork for restoration.

Before you all begin to think you need to give me a wide berth on the highway: I've also been the victim of other's errors.

I've been shunted in the side twice once by 2 old ladies in another mini and once while driving an Austin Metro. I'd say the Mini coped better even though the protagonist was probably going a little faster, I put that down to the Mini being lighter enabling it to ride the blow better.

I was also once struck a glancing blow by some muppet clipping a rear corner when I was doing around 40. That sprung the boot open and required a new wheel arch but demonstrated the Min's excellent stability as I had no problem regaining control as it sent me snaking down the road.

So much for war stories - you could consider a clubman if you want more metal in front of you.

...

Nearly forgot when I was a lot younger and a little dafter I once reversed my dad's Mini into a concrete post at a reasonable lick. I got away with a surreptitious bumper change. If other cars had cheap, one colour suits all, bumpers in line with the car's main structure we'd have to pay less for insurance to subsidise minor shunts.

[biggav]

from my own experience and that of my father and grandfather (50 years fire service experience between us) in heavy front end impact. the engine likes to come into the passenger compartment, usually ending up with lower limb amputations. this is more comon against stationary vehicles and solid structures.

[Jammy]

Moved to Mini Chat.

[Plattapuslikesrice]

Thanks guys, I never considered that with a hard shell (due to the roll cage) and the Mini's light weight, the Mini would be likely to be thrown away from the other car rather than momentum meeting momentum. Wonderful way for energy transfer to be directed otherwise, especially with a roll cage . I would not mind, ahem, figuring out a way to import a newer Mini shell and dropping an engine in it post facto, but that is a different discussion . It seems now that the only safety problem is what I heard about passenger compartment engine intrusion with lower limb amputation.....is there a sort of beam or front shield that can be improved or welded to the roll cage to prevent engine intrusion? I would hope so as I like walking . Thanks again guys.

[taffy1967]

Crashed Mini Cooper link

This is the true aftermath of a 55-60mph head on collision between a 1990 Rover Mini Cooper (Mainstream like mine and the Anoraks) and a much larger car.

As you can see from the damage to the larger car, the smash was pretty severe and the Mini was sadly done for, but the driver survived and this is what he said on another forum about the incident: -

Yep, it was me who crashed that Cooper. Got to add - NOT my fault. The other car was overtaking a tractor & trailer & 2 cars on a blind bend.

The car stood up pretty well. The engine moved, but didn't enter passenger compartment. Steering wheel & column moved, (hit my chest). Pedal box remained in place. Feet or legs weren't trapped. The drivers door opened with ease. Could have walked away if I was conscious. Woke up in hospital 2hrs later.

Injury wise, ended up in intensive care for a few days & 6 months of work. No broken bones, just a fractured skull, bruised heart, aching ribs, damaged teeth & a few cuts & a massive head-ache!!!

Needless to say, it was a right-off!!

Yes, I bought another Mini, but with airbag this time!!

I haven't met Ade yet, but he is from my neck of the woods and he also said that the fire brigade cut him out because they feared he had spinal injuries because his ears were bleeding. But he didn't and it just proves that Minis are tough little cars after all, but I knew that because I've had the odd altercation myself in the 20 odd years of Mini motoring and yet I'm still here to tell the tale.

So Jesse go and buy a classic/real/proper Mini, because you don't know what you're missing and for the first time in almost 3 years I drove mine on the weekend and after being used to driving our MPV like someone's granddad, I instantly found myself throwing it around the bends and overtaking larger cars whilst driving up, down and across the mountains where I live and I was king of the road that day. Some big MPV or whatever it was (looked like a BMW?) tried closing in, but I just left him on the twisty bits.

Plus I couldn't believe the amount of attention it got and suddenly everyone was, smiling, waving or giving me the thumbs up. Even a load of bikers parked at a lay-by turned to look as I thundered by.

Minis are Mucking Fagic!

Edited by taffy1967, 10 July 2007 - 06:03 PM.

[biggav]

side impact bars and airbags were to satisfy legislation and to be honest i wouldn't bother.

I've been driving mini's for years and i have never crashed one... With the go-kart handling you'd have to be driving with your eyes shut to lose control!! just keep an eye out and steer clear of the morons on the road!!!

[minimarco]

just keep an eye out and steer clear of the morons on the road!!!

drive at a constant state of cat-like alertness.

[mab01uk]

As an engineer (and a classic Mini enthusiast) I would say if passive safety is your priority then you must treat owning and driving a Mini in the same way a motorcyclist treats biking. ie. You will always come off worst in a serious accident with a modern car or large vehicle so all you can really do is drive more defensively, be more aware and keep space around you wherever possible. eg. Even in a modern car I would advise against sitting in between 2 large lorries on the motorway for any length of time unless you want to become the meat in a sandwich should the worst happen.
With regard to rollcages etc, these stiffen the structure and work in race Minis because the driver is full harness belted tightly in but must be combined with crash helmets and F1 style neck braces because the lack of crumple zones in the Mini + a stiff roll cage transfers very high loadings to the drivers body which can cause death and injury even though the cars bodyshell remains intact.

To show the difference between an old and new design here is the EuroNCAP test for the Rover 100 (improved Metro). These results of 1 star, which would have been better than the classic Mini had it ever been tested, forced Rover to stop production soon after due to the bad publicity when the test results went public:-
http://www.euroncap....00_1997/11.aspx

The second test results are for the new 2001 MINI (4 stars) which has a modern crumple zone, rigid passenger compartment and six airbags:-
http://www.euroncap....i_2002/112.aspx

Further progress with the 2006 MINI getting 5 stars:-
http://www.euroncap....i_2007/288.aspx

So don't stop driving your classic Mini just be aware of your vunerability in certain situations on the road and as has been said watch out for the morons! (especially 4x4's & mpv's).

[taffy1967]

So in a nut shell, BMW BINI is at least twice the size, twice as safe but half the fun?

Anyway Ade proved that their not death traps and so long as you drive safely you'll be fine. I just need to keep reminding myself of that when I'm hurtling around the mountains though.

[Plattapuslikesrice]

Thank you very much everyone, especially Taffy and Abo for your contributions. The crash testing information seemed a bit disturbing, looking at all the lethal damage done to the occupants. There is a good point about energy transfer and the conditions that need to be met for the roll cage to protect the occupant effectively in the event of a crash. I want to grow some '*******' and drive the classic but after seeing the crash test information I don't think I can bring myself to make it my daily driver. That's a damn shame, although I think it'd be a shame to be done-in by a stupid clunker ('moron') of a car. I still want to be convinced there would be a bearably safe way to drive the classic because of it's massive appeal, but so far it seems as this is not the case. It is a pity. Thank you for your input - it is much appreciated. I will still be open to input, patiently staring like a hopeless addict waiting for 'his fix.' Who knows, maybe I'll take up smoking and splurge on expensive suits and pick up fine young women in the classic mini I'd be driving . Thanks again guys.