28 replies to this topic

[taffy1967]

I'm sorry to hear about this too and our Minis are like family pets and everyone knows how upsetting it is when a pet is ill or hurt.

Anyway I know that fire damaged engines are dangerous, because I believe it has something to do with the rubber melting which makes it become acidic and very dangerous. I know there's a long word that describes the stuff that's produced, but I can't think of it right now.

So as you're engine wasn't damaged, then you're sure to be in with a chance of keeping it and I hope that's the case because we've all had first cars and I know I was attached to mine too.

Edited by taffy1967, 13 July 2007 - 10:33 PM.

[Silicon Skum]

Anyway I know that fire damaged engines are dangerous, because I believe it has something to do with the rubber melting which makes it become acidic and very dangerous. I know there's a long word that describes the stuff that's produced, but I can't think of it right now.

There are lots of words for the stuff produced by burnt rubber;

dioxins, furans, PAHs (Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons), PCBs (Polychlorinated Biphenyls), hexavalent chromium (Chromium (VI) - is known to be toxic and carcinogenic), cadmium (toxic). Other toxic byproducts from burning rubber used in minis (tyres, rubber cones etc.) include mercury, lead, nickel, beryllium, xylene, toluene, phenol, mono-chlorobenzene, napthalene, formaldehyde, acetaldeyde, and dozens of more products of incomplete combustion. All VERY nasty stuff, and some are strong irritants as well.

ALWAYS handle burnt rubber parts with gloves, never touch with bare skin - as well as irritants some chemicals produced can cause "Contact Dermatitis" and other skin problems.

Fingers crossed, 'n I'm sure this is one occasion Skull won't mind if he's proved wrong. You do see some fire damaged cars advertised as repairable salvage so hopefully...

Skull...? me (Skum)? Anyway, yeah some cars are sold as fire damaged repairable, but these may not have gone through the normal insurance route, or may have been purchased from a salvage dealer after the insurance company wrote them off - but again this depends on the type of fire involved (small engine fires are usually repairable, gutted interiors are usually hotter and damage the shell, so are not repairable).

I'm no expert on this, and neither are insurance companies, so they tend to be over enthusiastic when it comes to CAT ratings with fire damged vehicles (too much risk of being sued due to dangerous vehicles being put back on the road..). Post some pics up if you can, I'm sure we will be able to say if the car can be repaired safely (and legally).

Keep on top of the location of your car, as I said - insurance companies have been known to send cars off to the scrappers before settling the claim (possibly as a way to FORCE you to accept the claim...). Don't be suprised if they tell you the car cannot be fixed (even if it can), and be aware they tend to send vehicles that have been scrapped to other parts of the country (they do similar things with ex-company or fleet vehicles that are sold to the public) so original owners cannot retrive the car.

Good luck, and hold out against the insurance if you think the car IS salvageable! Try to force for a CAT C, which is repairable but will need a VIC check.

SS

[*DJH*]

Maybe this will encourage more mini owners to have a fair size fire extinguisher with them at all times.

Sorry to hear this Rich, but at least you discovered the fire when you did.

[MiniDick]

I'm definately gonna sort a fire extinguisher out. I work at an insurance bodyshop (I'm a Valeter) It's VERY rare we ever repair fire damaged cars, if we do it's only really minor damage. The fire weakens the shell too much, you can't really test the shells strength by pushing it. My old BMW Compact was stolen and burnt out, all the back end was burnt and they still made it a CAT A, so they disposed of it. i'd be crying too as we all put time, effort and money into our little motors and they're like mates, really. I hope you can sort something out!

[Dan]

Burned cars are very, very dangerous things. As above there are serious problems with heated rubber. Beside all the byproducts of combustion mentioned above by SS, there is one compound that is very dangerous indeed. Nitrile rubber heated to over 400 degrees produces the most powerfully acidic compound known to man as Taffy says, it's Carboxylic acid I think. This isn't just a combustion byproduct of any old rubber but specifically nitrile rubber and isnt just what's in the smoke, it's what the remains of the rubber is turned into after the fire. It is so powerful it will burn through any gloves you are wearing, any flesh, all the way to the bone. The only effective medical treatment for a serious burn from this acid is amputation. Avoid touching burned car parts at all costs. Nitrile rubber is all over cars. O rings, grommets, rubber seals for glass, brake parts, seats, wiring, everywhere. As above there is also the problem of a weakened steel structure after a fire and buckling and distortion of the shell. Sorry but in my opinion any serious degree of fire to a car means it should be destroyed. I know that sucks but there it is. Electrical fires are very serious and spread through cars very quickly which is why I am always begging people on here to do their wiring properly and treat it with respect.

If Big Gav reads this I'm sure he'll have something to add.

Sorry to hear about your car but as I said, I don't think you should even try to repair it if there is any more than the slightest damage.

[Mini Mad Rich]

Thanks for your your replies it means alot to me atm

I'm just stick over if I should go with my head or my heart, my head tells me either let him go to the scrap yard or give him to someone who can bring him back to what he once was and my heart says get him back on the road.

I'm siding towards my head but I want someone to take him on because I cant do the work my self and I know he will be looked after.

Thanks

[M44K TS]

have you thought of re-shelling it?

IMO it would be alot safer as people have said about it weakening the structure of the car. Might be cheaper aswell. If you can find a solid shell, maybe transfering the salvagable bits over from your car to the new one.

[Dan]

Reshelling into a second hand shell is illegal. You can retain parts from the car you have and put them in another car but it will retain the identity of the new car.

[taffy1967]

Or you could buy a new Heritage Shell and you should be able to keep the identity of you're Mini then?

[Ethel]

Surely it's only illegal if you get caught?

Did I say that, absolutely not!

[Silicon Skum]

Thing is, Reshelling would be an option - BUT ONLY if there is enough of the original car left to reshell (interior, glass, subframe, brake / susspension assemblies etc.)!

Also the insurance company probably will not let the car return to the owner if the shell is damaged by heat (most cars cannot be re shelled easily, if at all, so this is a standard practise to stop a dangerous vehicle being repaired).

Chances are, this car is going to written off as a CAT A or B at the very least.


As for the acid produced by Nitrile rubber - yes some Carboxylic acid will be produced from carboxylated nitrile rubber, but only small ammounts. The strength of the acid depends on it's concentration - in this case I think it would be about 2 molar strength (about the same strength as car battery acid), so strong enough to cause burns (treatment for which would be a strong alkali to neutralise the acid and flush with clean water - then seek medical treatment).
However I would be more worried about the Hydrogen Cyanide produced from the nitrile rubber - this is far more dangerous at low concentrations!



I'm going to Mini Mania tomorrow, so I think I'll have a quick trip to halfords and buy a new fire extinguisher - this topic has got me a little nervous!

SS

[Mini Mad Rich]

Hi

If anyone is intressted in a project car I have put my mini up for sale.

Thanks

Rich

[Phaeton]

Hi

If anyone is intressted in a project car I have put my mini up for sale.

Thanks

Rich

How can you sell something that may or may not be yours to sell? You say you've informed your insurance company & waiting for them to pay out on it, unless they then let you buy it back it's no longer yours. Unless of course you're cancelling your insurance claim & retaining ownership.

Alan...

[Mini Mad Rich]

They told yesturday that it is still mine, they have'nt collected it yet but they assured me that it is still legally mine.

Thanks