11 replies to this topic

[ChrisL]

I'm looking at investing in this electronic ignition system and wondered if anyone has it on their mini.
I saw it at Normanby Hall and it looks fantastic.

[Udo]

Theres a guy who brings his Hillclimb mini to the Caenby corner meet who has it and says its very good (but think he got it fairly free / cheap as his car was the test rig!)

I spoke to the guy selling it and although he know what he was on about couldnt tell me why his system was better than Megajolt which is quite a bit cheaper just kept saying it was better. His price doesnt inc the timing ring senser bracket etc just as megajolt.

The screens he showed me on the laptop looked very simialar to MJ the only real difference I saw was that he has written his own code which means you dont need the edis module

Just had a quick look and what he is supplying for £225 cost me £90. (built unit, CD, serial cable, and wiring plug with wire tails)

Edited by Udo, 06 August 2007 - 02:13 PM.

[ChrisL]

Whats the MJ system, I've not heard of that? Can you pass on any details please.

Thanks

[The Matt]

Have a look at the link in my signature.

The MJ system is Megajolt, from Autosport labs. If you do a google search for Megajolt there's loads of info out there.

[canemsdave]

Hi, I was interested to find this discussion about the Canems ignition ECU. I’d like to clarify some apparent misconceptions about the system.

Although the system may appear to be like Megajolt to those unfamiliar to the complexities of these systems, there are important differences.

Our ignition ECU has the crank sensor input circuitry and dwell control built in so there is no need for a separate EDIS module (which must also be purchased). Obviously this simplifies the wiring and allows us to provide a completed wiring loom that's ready to connect to the components. A Megajolt system ‘plug with wire tails’ leaves the fitter with the majority of wiring still to do. On a Megajolt setup, EDIS unit and ECU must be linked with shielded cable – another item that needs to be sourced.

As coil dwell is controlled internally on the Canems ECU, you can set the static timing wherever you like. This means you can fit a trigger wheel on the crank pulley in any position and the software will adapt to suit. With Megajolt, you have to physically arrange the trigger wheel and sensor so that they are in exact relation to each other – quite a job, particularly on an inaccessible Mini engine!
Again, due to the internal dwell control, the Canems ECU has a programmable hard rev-limiter. This is not possible on an EDIS setup without the risk of firing a spark at the wrong time, with potential engine damage being the result.
The input tacho output on the Canems ECU has been widely tested on a range of rev-counters, and we have yet to find an incompatible instrument. Contrast this with folks on the Megajolt forums.
Unlike the Megajolt, the Canems ECU is capable of running TPS and MAP sensors off-the-shelf rather than needing to specify at build time. Ideal if you are planning an upgrade to forced induction at some point.

As a professionally built and tested solution, the Canems ECU is apparently a more expensive option than MegaJolt, but is significantly easier in terms of fitting and setting up. In terms of expense, a popular and often recommended source of the Megajolt systems are AF Racing (http://www.afracing.co.uk/). Their prices appear more in line with what I would expect for a Megajolt system than the quoted £90. Given the basic price at AF Racing, and considering the extra sourcing and purchases needed, the more comprehensive Canems system seems good value to me.

I have had experience of fitting a number of EDIS-based ignition systems in the past – one of few people contributing software to the Megajolt project. This software is still freely available for others to use as they wish. However, experience of the shortcomings in the Megajolt prompted the release of the Canems ignition system.

As an aside, our original ignition ECU is now being used as the basis for our latest product. This is a combined ignition and fuel injection controller which is being designed with the Mini in mind. Hopefully many of you will have seen the prototype ECU running at MITP last weekend. Due to new software developments at Canems, and extensive testing, the ECU is capable of running fully programmable multi-point injection on a siamese port cylinder head. This will allow the fitting of motorcycle throttle bodies to a standard five port head. Watch our website for developments!

Regards
David
Canems Engine Management Solutions
http://www.canems.co.uk

[Sprocket]

One question about coil dwell times

Coil dwell is the time it takes the coil to charge, too short a dwell and the spark is small. Too large a dwell and the coil will overheat and burn out.

Each igntion coil is different, so depending on what coil is used dwell times are different though most are very similar with dwell times of roughly 3ms is the installer gets it wrong, it could burn out the coil. Do you specify which coil to use and the dwell times specific to that coil. This is the only issue i can see with this.

The advantage of EDIS is the dwell times are in the 'black box' as such and is something less to worry about, after all its OEM and production reliable. Mega jolt has settings to adjust the degrees before TDC of the crank sensor and there are many kits/ pullies currently available for the A series to take advantage of EDIS.

The other thing is, you say there is a hard cut, what about a soft cut?

Sounds an interesting concept and is definately a step in the right direction. However some people want simplicity rather than complexity.

I like the sound of it!!

PS: Im intregued about your siamese port injection system with Bike TBs, I must have missed it last week end, what times was the car running

Edited by Mini Sprocket, 22 August 2007 - 10:54 PM.

[AlexF2003]

How much does one of these sytems work out at?

A MJ from me is about 140 built plus another £40 (or less from a scrappy) for sensors. Wiring is cheap as there are only a few wires to it. The sheilded stuff is easy to find in maplin

A trigger wheel costs anywhere from £10 to £100 depending on how you do. But thats going to be the same for either kits.


Things I like about the MJ are you can switch between two maps as well as datalog. There are also 4 user defianble outputs for things like water injection, water spray or shift lights.

Oh and you can run any map sensor you wish on a MJ now

The Canems system does look like a good bit of kit as well

Alex

[canemsdave]

Hi there,

Thanks for the positive response. You are exactly right about coil dwell times. To minimise complexity and eliminate potential reliability problems, our ECU uses the Ford coil pack only. All dwell timing is then set internally by the ECU - the user doesn't need to alter any settings or have any knowledge of dwell timing etc.

Contrary to your assumption however, the Mega jolt has no settings to adjust the degrees before TDC of the crank sensor. Our ECU still features a programmable soft-cut rev limiter by the way.

The siamese-port injection system is still at a pre-production stage, but was demonstrated all day on our stand at MITP. We were running a 998 engine with 1275 MPI manifold to demonstrate the software. Use of bike throttle bodies is a logical next progression, as it will follow the same principles.

A car running the Canems ignition system made a number of runs on the strip, luckily just avoiding a collision with the 'Shed racing' car! See http://www.themininut.com/mitp2007.php for a video of the incident. The car ran 15 second times all day including reaction times - this on a 1380 N/A engine with five port head. The car is actually used for sprints and hillclimbs (first time on a drag strip) and is fully road legal.

Regards
David
Canems Engine Management Solutions
http://www.canems.co.uk

[canemsdave]

Hi Alex,

You posted while I was writing there! The ECU, software, tuning lead and loom is £225. Thanks for the comments.

Regards
David
Canems Engine Management Solutions
http://www.canems.co.uk

[The Matt]

Yeah, I had a nose under the bonnet (assuming we are talking about the same green Clubby) and was interested to see what was going on. It was good to see it run down the strip and hit the 15's too. Made me think that my 1380 might perform around that area

[Scruffs]

Hi Alex,

You posted while I was writing there! The ECU, software, tuning lead and loom is £225. Thanks for the comments.

Regards
David
Canems Engine Management Solutions
http://www.canems.co.uk

Hi David,

A tuned 998 with the MPi setup is something I have been thinking about for a long time! I guess you'll be competing with the megasquirt? Was looking at the Megasquirt for this setup but couldn't find much info on people using it with siamesed ports, obviously this looks a bit more promising!

How much are you expecting your fuel/spark ECU to cost and do you have any idea when it will be available? Considering this is designed with the A series in mind, would you be able to supply base maps? (obviously with some sort of disclaimer I imagine!) Is it designed to be a fairly foolproof black box style interface or more advanced with a steep learning curve (not as though that would be a bad thing...). I have worked with engine ECU's before (MoTeC) but not in depth and I would still call myself a tuning novice...

cheers! probably best get back to work...

[canemsdave]

Hi,

I'm not specifically aiming to compete with the Megasquirt system. My intention is to make a finished system and doubtless comparisons could be made to all other ECUs on the market already. All systems are superficially similar, but customers for these systems have complained about their complexity - particularly the lack of user-friendly tuning software. Consequently the Canems systems are specifically designed with user-friendly application in mind. Of course the extra functions needed to run a siamese-port head are a specific improvement for tuning Minis, MGBs etc.
I have been experimenting with different cylinder heads and their effect on fuel injection timing requirements so I will be able to supply base maps to suit most setups. In this respect, the system could be run in a black-box style (fit and run) though obviously it has the advantage that the system can be programmed as and when needed. I'm hoping the ECU will be between £400 and £450 when it is released - at the moment this is looking feasible. The printed circuit boards are just being ordered so within a couple of months I hope to have a finished product ready for sale (hopefully sooner!). As the system nears completion I will keep our web site up to date with developments.

Regards
David
Canems Engine Management Solutions
http://www.canems.co.uk