20 replies to this topic

[YellowPeril]

First post as have discovered the wonderful knowledge hub of TMF!!

I have recently bought a '84 Mini 25 as my first car and loving it - great fun to drive and awesome to just look at!!

As the colder, damper weather is coming in i am going to convert to electronic ignition.

The problem arises when I look under the bonnet and stare at my ducellier dizzy! After finding various suggestions I am unsure which way to go.

*Buy an electronic ignition dizzy and coil off a metro and fit the whole lot in.
*Buy an ignition kit (luminition,aldon,pertronix ignitor) and pop the bits in the cap - but doubt they will work in my french dizzy
*Buy a whole lucas 45 with electronic ignition (seen for ~£60 on ebay) and fit it striaght on in place of my ducellier

I am looking for something at a good price but also gives a noticable difference in economy, performance, starting etc. (need to get timings and mixture spot on afterwards though as abit rich at the mo)

Some wisdom would be greatly appreciated!!

Cheers
Matt

[taffy1967]

I can certainly vouch for the electronic ignition that got fitted to Rover Mini Coopers and other 1275cc engined Minis after 1990.

My Mini has done over 95,000 miles and the ignition system has always be fantastic.

[Ethel]

Probably easiest to swap to a Lucas. I don't know but there's a slim chance there could be an electronic ducelllier dizzy fitted to another make of car you could acquire the necessary bits from.

[YellowPeril]

I have found a lucas 45d dizzy on ebay with electronic ignition, £60 a decent price??

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...E:X:RTQ:GB:1123

looks ok, the seller tells me that to fit my engine i will need to do the mod of trimming 8mm off the drive shaft.

Having never fitted one before, is the mod and fitting a difficult process? My dad and I both work in engineering so have a fairly levelled head about these things though never done a dizzy converstion before.

(i also assume the new dizzy can be placed in without removing much else apart from the old ducc. dizzy)


cheers

matt

[Ethel]

That's for an A rather than A+ engine and looks like it has been converted to contactless rather than Lucas original eqpt.

You will ideally want one with the right advance components for your engine.

I hadn't mentioned Megajolt before but if you can do some machining yourself to sort the crank sensor it could be cost effective and by far the best solution.

[Ste]

I have been using electronic ignition in lucas dizzys and found much better starting and fuel econmy over the standard system

The first one was the Aldon optronic on a standard 998 a+ . This car now runs on a Luminition magnetronic. Both have given starts first time, every time on a car driven everyday and over 15000 miles a year.

Wwe also have a car with a ducillier and will be swapping it for the aldon equiped lucas asap as its been a little troublesome, even compaired to the standard lucas item.

[GraemeC]

Firstly get the right one for your A+ engine. There is a lot more to modifying an A series dizzy to fit an A+ engine than just trimming 8mm off it; the drive dog is different, the clamping arrangement is different etc

Secondly get one that was originally fitted to a 998 then the advance curve will be about right.

You can either get a points type dizzy and fit a conversion kit or try and find one from a later metro that was electronic as standard - will have a black box on the side of the dizzy about the size of a box of matches.

Also make sure that the coil is compatible - the rover electronic dizzies don't tend to like high power coils etc.

[YellowPeril]

Hey guys,

thanks for the replies, have gone against the ebay idea as the work on it may be more trouble than it's worth.

Looking for lucas dizzies - assuming that my 998 A+(i think!!) needs a 59D4, they seem to be around the £80 mark. Haven't looked for second hands, will ring round tomoz.

Though, I have found on t'interweb this little gem.
http://www.allcarspa...?...1068&cID=93

seems a bargain - if its the correct type!
on the main dizzy page their are two metro electronic dizzy's (one for metro, one for metro MG) wil give them a call tomorrow i think.

I believe i need a new ignition coil (GCL143) and a 1275 dizzy clamp bracket [info thanks to 1984mini25 not me!!]

I hope the one on allcarspares is good as want to fit it next weekend as starting tonight at a coupla degrees wasnt a fun experience - nearly ran the battery flat after 10 mins to no start (my dad trying), then after returning an hour later i managed to start it up after a bit and charge the battery back up a bit!

Matt

[GraemeC]

You need the one for a 1.0 metro though, not a 1.3!!

Whether you need a new clamp bracket will depend on how the Duecellier is presently held in place, the Lucas items on an A+ are held by a fork with a single bolt through it into the block.

[YellowPeril]

thanks for the replies guys.

i rang up allcarspares (or whatever there called) and asked whether i could use the 1.3 in my 998 and the guy went round the corner to a mini specialist shop and he eckons that the dizzy they have (1.3 metro electronic i think) will fit my A+ 998.

He says he has an ignition coil and bracket to fit aswell which is great,
though when i was on the phone, it was friday afternoon and it was being relayed by what sounded like some spotty work experience kid who didnt really have a clue!

There is also a yard near to my work that has a metro dizzy, he says it has two wires coming of it - does that mean that it's leccy ignition or just a normal dizzy with the voltage from the ignition coil?! will goa nd have a look, but is there any obiviuos things to easily spot to see if it is electronic or points.

Many thanks

matt

[Ethel]

Yep, an electronic one won't have any points inside

Electronic ones have the amplifier (a black plaggy box) on the side, ideally you'd want the tail end of the loom with the connector block on it. There is another electronic dizzy that was fitted to A+'s that had a separate amplifier: it has a male 'n female bullet connector in the same connector block if you get that you'll obviously need the amplifier to match.

Try and find out as much as possible about the car they came off you might be able to cross reference the advance information. A 998 needn't be a better match than a 1275, things like compression ratio will matter as much.

[YellowPeril]

After a dizzy free weekend I am back to the mini problems!!

She started up fine today, but it was quite mild. I am hoping to fit the next weeked after next (if nothing else comes up) so hoping to buy the dizzy very soon.

I am looking at buying the dizzy from allcarspares above, as the guy on the phone said that it WILL fit my A+ 998 as he went round to the mini specialist shop round the corner. He says he has the bracket and ignition coil to suit. Work was busy today and no time to call but I shall call again tomorrow.

In your opinions, should the 1.3 metro electronic ignition fit my A+998 with (if website shows all stock) a 89 1.0 metro coil. Seems abit bodge job to me -i'm not sure how much each of the components have to work together and be completely compatible.

Should I stay or should I go!! Risk or run eh!

[Dan]

As long as the dizzy and engine are both A+ then it will physically fit yes but the 1275 dizzy does not have the right components to provide the correct advance curve for the 998 engine. It will make the engine work but it will not work as well (in terms of engine performance, economy and tune) as one with the correct advance curve. If I were you I would track down an A+ 59D or 49D from a 998 engine and then fit the Magnetronic module to it, making the required wiring changes as you do so and fitting a Lucas, standard spec coil (the ducellier is different and may damage the electronic module). It doesn't matter whether you use a 59D or a 49D if you are changing to electronic ignition as the only difference between the two is a detail of the points (the 59D uses blue heel sliding points to help prevent pitting) which you are discarding anyway. Just make sure it's from an A+, 998 spec and roughly the same age as your engine.

[YellowPeril]

Just to keep this topic useful for the future I thought I should update it on what I did in the end.

I decided to go for the Electronic Metro Dizzy (Lucas 64D) with a new coil (GCL143) and with a 1275 dizzy clamp (TAM1873 maybe?).

Went for metro dizzy as price was best for my wallet (totalling ~60 for everything)

Unfortunately the module on the dizzy didnt have the connector with it so after fitting everything on wiring it all up, it didnt spark!! flipped the module wires over and luckily i hadn't blown the module and she sprang into life.

Couple of strange things happened, rev counter didnt work (hadn't reconnected two white/black wires to negative side of coil!?), indicators worked but didnt flash (assumed flasher unit blown but then fixed themselves after i tidyed up the wires), all lights stopped working (blame falls on dodgy fuse box which i must fix).

After sorting idle speed and roughly doing timing - (couldn't find marks to line up with strobescope - will ask my boss one lunchtime) all was good. Fires up nicely and the performance has greatly improved. With my old dizzy i could not accelerate fast, if I put my foot down, it would judder like mad so would have to slowly apply accelerator. Though maybe this could have been sorted with new points, rotor arm, HT leads etc.

I also cleaned up the spark plugs and sorted mixture as plugs were looking a bit black. Didnt replace plugs or ht leads as I am going to run it for a while and see what happens. Dont seem to have any splits in leads so hopefully ok.

All in all, very happy with my metro dizzy. Only time will tell (after I have marigolded it up) to see how she performs in the cold and rain/snow!

Cheers for the help from everyone, even if i did disregard buying a lucas and ignition kit!! Havent taken her on the motorway yet but will see if she runs faster as before she couldnt go much more than 60 on the flat (juddering).

new dizzy, new lease of life!!

Matt

[Matrix]

Luminition do a kit for the duci

PMA50 for the amp and LFK805 for the chopper kit

http://www.moss-euro...ateIndexID=3680 shows the amp and all the other fitting kits I just checked and we have LFK805's in shock to be honest it would be cheaper and better to fit a s/h lucas dizzy then get the cheaper electronic kit!
Hope this helps