16 replies to this topic

[tuka22]

has anyone seen one of these anywhere as i have an spi mini and am desperate to get it onto carbs.
if so are they any good
thanx james

[Dan]

No, because you will have to replace the entire engine. There is almost no chance that a carb'd engine will pass the injection emissions test reliably every year (or even once for that matter) so you have to change the entire engine for an older unit in order to avoid the test.

Edited by Dan, 29 November 2007 - 06:12 PM.

[ginigwunkle]

i read an article somewhere, maybe calver not sure, that said a 1275 spi change too a hif44 setup PROPERLY on a rolling road can pass a mot test

basically its a carb manifold filter take the fuel return off either change the fuel tank or modify it for a hole at the top and vented cap

[redhotmini]

or sell the spi mini and buy a carb'd mini.

[Sprocket]

i read an article somewhere, maybe calver not sure, that said a 1275 spi change too a hif44 setup PROPERLY on a rolling road can pass a mot test

Under which test was Calver talking about?

If you fit a carb and keep the injection cat, yes you may well be able to tune it to pass an MOT initialy. However, what then happens, your air filter becomes dirty, and the fueling then starts to run rich and slowly kill the cat so the next year you go for an MOT it will fail. You could fit a carb cat, but that still wont reduce the emissions enough to satisfy the cat test. Dont think that the cat test is the same as a basic emissions test but with a lower limit, its not. The cat test is a combination of natural idle and fast idle CO%, Lambda and Hydro carbons ppm. The basic test is just CO% and hydro carbons ppm with much higher limits.

If you have also taken off the cat, then there is no chance it will pass. Its difficult enough to get a fully programable ECU with wideband lambda through this test without a cat, a carb has not a chance!

The main problem with the carb is the hydrocarbon emissions

You could try the tester to test it on a BET, but this is not right, or correct, not evry one will do this, plus, come the Vosa road side test, it will fail.

Add to this most people do not plumb in the water heated manifold, again there is no chance a carb will pass a cat test, well ok, it may one minuit, but drive down the road, and it wont.

0.3%co can be achieved with a carb, but the tollerence of a carb is to big for it to be reliably repeatable in different conditions, most probibly when you need it to be, at a road side Vosa test. They will issue you with a fixed penalty fine if it fails, you will also be required to provide proof of repair and they mean a new MOT certificate.

I dont know of anyone who has yet fallen foul to this, but its going to happen more frequently, very soon!

Up to you fitting a carb to an injection car it will cost you more in the long run in many ways!

[Ethel]

Surely we're not getting on the spot fines for emissions failures? How would they expect anyone to know they are breaking the law short of buying their own emmisions tester?

[redhotmini]

Surely we're not getting on the spot fines for emissions failures? How would they expect anyone to know they are breaking the law short of buying their own emmisions tester?

they would probably make you take it to an mot test centre, or somehwere that has the necessary emissions testing equipment. thats if they ever decide to do n the spot emissions fines. i think they can take your car to an mot test centre if they pull you over and they think its not roadworthy. so in my opinion, if you want carburettors, buy a mini that was fitted with carbs from the factory, rather than messing about with a conversion (which i dont see the point in myself).

[Bevan]

Sorry for being off topic, but I took the cat off my spi and it still passes the emmisions

[paulrockliffe]

This month's Mini Magazine deals with this question and Keith Calver says:

1. It's an easy job.
2. The result is impressive - 10% more performance throughout the rev range.
3. MoT will not test to see if the cat is there or not so you can remove it.
4. The car would be subjeected to the catalyst test.
5. Once set up correctly on a rolling road the emissions were not a problem.

I'm not putting this forward as my opinion by the way, I have no idea, just throwing it out there...........

[tuka22]

I found a kit in america from www.minimania.com to change it for su's and i can get around the emisions test because we know the owner of the garage very well

[ginigwunkle]

thats the one paulrock life, couldn remember where id seen it!

[Dan]

Surely we're not getting on the spot fines for emissions failures?

they would probably make you take it to an mot test centre

We already have roadside emissions fines. They take portable testing equipment out to the VOSA roadside tests. You must have seen these things, they have all these officials from Customs, VOSA, the Police, the DVLA etc. at the roadside and a fleet of Police motorcycles about 1/2 a mile away in every direction along with a numberplate recognition camera. The system decides which cars / trucks / busses the bikes will chase and they pull you in for a very thorough vehicle inspection. It's far more intense than an MOT. They can give you roadside fines for anything or even confiscate your car. Also there are roadside emissions 'cameras' in various locations around London that sniff the air and scan the numberplate of particularly smelly vehicles.

[Sprocket]

This month's Mini Magazine deals with this question and Keith Calver says:

1. It's an easy job.
2. The result is impressive - 10% more performance throughout the rev range.
3. MoT will not test to see if the cat is there or not so you can remove it.
4. The car would be subjeected to the catalyst test.
5. Once set up correctly on a rolling road the emissions were not a problem.

I'm not putting this forward as my opinion by the way, I have no idea, just throwing it out there...........

A carb will never pass a cat test, if it does, its a very special carb, especialy if the cat is not there.

I didnt say the cat was manditory, just the fact that it brings the emissions down.

How do they manage 10% increase between carb and injection on the same engine? I know of only one way and thats run it rich, then you loose the fuel economy. the standard fuel injection bits are good for 90bhp no probelms. You tell me how many 90bhp+ engines there are in relation to sub 90bhp, I can tell you the argument to go over to carbs because you can get better power figures is some what an ill educated statement.

Also with a carb, you will need to have the engine tuned on the rollers, theres another £60 to £150, pluss the purchase of the carb, manifold and filter.

Whats wrong with throwing that sort of money at the injection system to get it working in tip top condition? no need for a rolling road

[Sprocket]

i can get around the emisions test because we know the owner of the garage very well

How will that help on a spot check road side emissions test?

It also not strictly leagal.

[Ethel]

Surely we're not getting on the spot fines for emissions failures?

they would probably make you take it to an mot test centre

We already have roadside emissions fines. They take portable testing equipment out to the VOSA roadside tests. You must have seen these things, they have all these officials from Customs, VOSA, the Police, the DVLA etc. at the roadside and a fleet of Police motorcycles about 1/2 a mile away in every direction along with a numberplate recognition camera. The system decides which cars / trucks / busses the bikes will chase and they pull you in for a very thorough vehicle inspection. It's far more intense than an MOT. They can give you roadside fines for anything or even confiscate your car. Also there are roadside emissions 'cameras' in various locations around London that sniff the air and scan the numberplate of particularly smelly vehicles.

Oooo it's becoming a scarey ol' country we live in.

I've actually been stopped for a road side test wasn't too thorough as I had no sides lights at the time 'n I still got away with no problem. Didn't realise they could fine you, seems a bit harsh as you could easily have a fault and not know it. An order to get it fixed and prove it seems adequate to me.