55 replies to this topic

[mini.cooper998]

right ive been looking at the Eaton M45 BINI supercharger and have this proposal (would like some oppinions)

1380 block and pistons, stage 3 head 286cam 1.5 roller rockers then and after a fair amount of manifold bending.

Mount the eaton supercharger where the alternator is currently but rotate the supercharger unit 180 degrees so that the outlet to the supercharger is pointing upwards create a manifold to the back of the webber on a standard manifold (so forcing air through the carb rather than sucking it through ala jonspeed / minispeed conversion) also mount an intercooler on the supercharger inlet and upgrade the pulley size to a 9psi at this point mount the alternator at the top back of the engine bay near the wiper motor simlar to air con systems.

anyone tried this and had any luck or any better ideas to make an M45 blow through

thanks

andy

[Sam Walters]

i made a diagram at some point useing jenvey throttle bodies but it ended up being like 1400 quid to do it in the end
might aswell turbo at that price.

[mini23]

Its complicated, but it would work.

How do you dump the off throttle pressure? The charger will produce a lot more flow comming off throttle than a turbo will, so a turbo dump valve is not sufficient.

You'd have to get hold of a weber off something like a lotus esprit turbo as the seals are different on a presurised carb.

Again if you go to that much cost and effort then a turbo is probably a better option.

[Sam Walters]

yup works in the same way as a turbo dump valve but much bigger. itll be like a turbo compressor stall however a super charger cant free wheel so basicly it stops it dead enough to stop is moveing on the belt. also it doesnt do the carb/injection setup any good unless you have one of these bypass jobbies. doesnt do it any good high pressure against belt friction.

[mini.cooper998]

just prefer superchargers less lag and less heat in the engine bay as regards dump valve, would a larger hybrid dumo valve not work something of say a 2 litre turbo cossie. anyone any recomendations of older cars running carbs on a blow through supercharger which may have good dump valve sytems did some of the old jags not run superchargers

As regards cost just need a supercharger i can mandrel bend the pipework at work and have a cpl of intercoolers knocking about, will also need a blow off valve too suit though any ideas appreciated

[mini.cooper998]

Just been looking at a BINI site must go home and flagelate saw this comment about a wategate any ideas if its true would make sense as there is no dump valve on the jonspeed system and its still going to be forcing air in



Is what you call a "Dump Valve" also referred to as a "Waste Gate" on a Turbo?

The Eaton Twisted Vane Roots-Style Supercharger does not have a traditional waste gate. On a turbo, the turbo still generates boost off of momentum. A supercharger is geared to the engine, and it's revs remain in sync with the engine at all times, unless the belt slips. So, most of the time, it does not generate excessive boost.

When downshifting and heavily engine braking, the supercharger will deliver more air than the engine needs, and to this effect, the Eaton supercharger opens a little flap and feeds the boosted airpressure back into the intake of the blower. That way you're not compressing extra air, just to waste it. By feeding excess air into the blower, your only penalty is driveline resistance, and not actually the air pump resistance - or at least not much. Pretty cool really, but probably does not make the cool sound you like.

The Eaton website has details. Sorry, don't remember the URL.

[Sam Walters]

its a bypass valve and you need to use specificly that no dump valve will do the job its just not designed to chug that ammount of air through it.

basicly in order to use a dump valve type thing you would need a super charger with a clutch to disenguage the rotors.

[mini.cooper998]

what about this flap that they mention on the BINI supercharger will that not bdo the job, it obviously works on the BINI and the jonspeed unit so why not as a blow through

cant understand why i would need one over the jonspeed suck through system doing the same thing also the shorrock system doesnt use one or the opcom neither have a dump valve in the kit so why if i do it this way do i need one (not being flippent i just dont understand them egnough to say i understand)

[Wil_h]

also mount an intercooler on the supercharger inlet and upgrade the pulley size to a 9psi

The IC needs to be after the SC otherwise it'll do bugger all.

Not sure about your thought of under bonnet temps either, SCs produce plenty of heat too.

[mini.cooper998]

can anybody answer the question of the dump valve on the BINI supercharger will the flap be sufficeient (if indeed it has one)

[nurseholliday]

The bypass valve I believe is not part of the 'charger but part of the engine.

You're best asking here for more information as bypass valve upgrades is something some of the new MINI owners are having to consider when going over 230 BHP.

http://www.mini2.com...vetrain-tuning/

Just spoken to 1320 Autos, a New MINI tuning specialist, Chris there reckons if you used the Metro Turbo carb, fuel pressure regualtor and pump you should be fine with a turbo dump valve. Failing that, a bypass valve can be fitted, but would involve inlet manifold modification and obviously the related extra pipework in the engine bay could potentially be a problem.

Edited by nurseholliday, 06 June 2008 - 04:00 PM.

[In-a-mini]

a dump valve is not enough it will tick over fine from starting touch the accelerator and then it will rev its self because the dump valve cant get rid of the air quick enough it is quite impresive just how much air there is pumped.

edit
found a pic to show how it is on the bini (part number 22)

Edited by In-a-mini, 06 June 2008 - 06:28 PM.

[spikyrob]

Please correct me if i'm wrong bit of a noob on turbos and SCers but the dump valve is operated off the manifold pressure, so why not run multiple dump valves, if flow is a problem, there are 2 solutions in my book, make it/get it bigger or multiply

[In-a-mini]

yeah probably work fine running more dump valves to compensate but would be alot of air under bonnet this is just a better (mechanically speaking) way but this is just my opinion.

[mini.cooper998]

so how does the jonspeed conversion get rid of the excess air