48 replies to this topic

[nurseholliday]

The mans right, just look at the thousands of Elise's that break down....

Jammy you of all people should know the time and effort Lotus put into the K Series before it went in an Elise.

[Dan]

I think the point was that it could have been put through the 2001 legislation at a cost of so many million but then in 2003 it would have essentially had to be stopped. There would not have been enough sales between the 2001 model year and 2003 to recoup the investment needed for the 2001 changes and so the updates weren't viable and Mini was stopped early. The other problem was that around this time Berndt Pishetschrieder (sp?) was replaced as head of BMW. This was the man responsible for buying Rover, the man who loved the Mini and who lavished all the money on getting it updated while BMW were in charge. Interestingly when he was replaced he moved to Audi where he immediately killed off the A2 because it 'wasn't as pretty as a Mini' and was competition against his favourite car. The man was quite mad but without him few on the board had any interest in Mini beyond pure sales figures.

[taffy1967]

I think at the end of the day, classic Mini production was doomed to end on the 4th October 2000 (at 10.30am), regardless of whether the car could continue to be built under new legislation rules.

BMW had the BINI all ready to go and the classic had to bow out before that got launched.

[roofless]

I think they should have sold the rights to continue manufacture of the mini to an independant, but limited them to a small production run each year. That would have made them rather expensive, but the hardened enthusiast with more money than sense could have bought one if he wanted.

[Jammy]

From what I've read, there are certain things that TVR managed to get around some how, probably to do with the fact that they were small production volumes, or were hand made, etc.

[taffy1967]

Well Minis were pretty much hand made too?

The claim that Mini never made money is based on a little understood experiment done by Ford to reverse engineer the Mini and run a cost analysis on making it. Ford found that they would make a loss on each Mini sold if they were making them but Ford didn't own Longbridge where eveything could be made in the same building (at that time). Mini was very much in profit and was probably the most profitable part of Rover over the years. Nobody would consistently make a loss on a product line for 41 years, not even BMC/BL/Rover.

This old chestnut turned up on a repeat showing of an old 'Jeremy Clarksons Motorworld' edition about 'The Men Who Killed The British Motor Company'.

But even Graham Day who was the Minis saviour during the mid 1980's has gone on record as saying how it was 'a good little earner' and so long as people bought them, they were prepared to keep on making them.

5mxbUrkDZ34

[benb12]

From what I've read, there are certain things that TVR managed to get around some how, probably to do with the fact that they were small production volumes, or were hand made, etc.

I believe most of Britain's current car manufacturers are allowed to avoid certain regulations because they make so few cars per year. Like the TVRs (when they were British) didn't even have ABS. And I'm sure companies like Ariel and Morgan have the same thing.

PS. Jammy, please check your inbox! ^^

Edited by benb12, 04 September 2008 - 08:22 PM.

[MiniMonty]

Out of pure interest does anyone know just how many Minis were built in all those years ?

Best wishes
Monty

[taffy1967]

Out of pure interest does anyone know just how many Minis were built in all those years ?

Best wishes
Monty

The final production number of Minis produced is 5,387,862.

[chunkomunko]

.....i'm sure I saw one or two ex-Rover Directors on a yacht in the med........

[mini_morley]

My understanding was that BMW invested in the classic mini in 1996 to keep it in production until the MINI was ready for sale, as it had been planned to replace the classic for a few years- Rover had already designed the MINI before BMW got in on the act, IIRC (although I'm open to correction).

[taffy1967]

BMW bought Rover in 1994 (possibly earlier?) and from the off, then BMW chairman Bernd Pitcheidsreider (who was a relation to Issigonis) made it known that he wanted to make a new type Mini.

Rover would have probably let it die, but Bernd injected the cash necessary to see it live on until 2000.

The BINI was actually designed by a Yank who then left BMW and went to work for Maserati.

Edited by taffy1967, 04 September 2008 - 09:51 PM.

[mab01uk]

The original Rover Mini replacement proposal presented to BMW was based around the Spiritual and Spiritual Too prototypes designed in 1995. Spiritual being 10' (120") long like the original Mini with mid-rear mounted 60bhp 800cc 3 cylinder version engine. ie. small, cheap and innovative but a high risk venture, whereas BMW favoured following the sporting heritage of the Mini as a drivers car and continuing to move the Mini upmarket, away from the over-crowded low profit basic economy car sector of the car business, where you really needed to manufacture outside of Western Europe to make any profit.
Rover (under BMW) had already repositioned the classic MPI/Sportpack Mini upmarket in the late 90's at a much higher price than before. A brave move which worked in the longterm for the Mini brand despite the difficulty of meeting modern customers quality expectations with such an old design.

Rover engineers were responsible for most of the new MINI design detail, the overall design styling was by an American Frank Stephenson (who also had a hand in designing the new Fiat 500). As mentioned Rover wanted to fit the K Series engine but BMW insisted on using the Chrysler Tritec engine but mated to the Rover Midland gearbox, although the Rover gearbox was replaced in 2004 by a Getrag due to unreliability problems...........

I guess the British built MINI's continuing worldwide success proves that BMW made the right commercial decision by making Rover develop the more sporting MINI prototype for production.
The MINI went on to be a far bigger than expected success for BMW, now producing 230,000 a year, whereas rivals like the new VW Beetle enjoyed only very brief success before fading, Audi's A2 aluminium small car failed to sell at all and was dropped from production while the Mercedes Smart Car notched up huge losses as sales targets of 200,000 a year failed to materialise and other versions were quickly withdrawn from production.

[fred.hamer]

I heard from somewhere that Rover had designed and developed the new Mini, then BMW had taken it over and made millions on it!

If rover had released that mini they would still be in business!

[chilly11]

Rover was a tiny brand compared to mini. Mini has always been mini and that is why BMW were so keen on it.

The threat to the mini scene now still exists with all this legal action, BMW taking mini traders to court for use of the name.
Some of whom have been in business for over 40 years. BMW never have and never will understand peoples cars at the
end of the day.