106 replies to this topic

[Guess-Works.com]

It may sound like I standing on the soap box, but I for one cannot condone the practice of vehicle identity fraud, so..

Should TMF take the stand and set a precedent of actively barring the sale of Vehicle Identification on this site along with reporting suspect vehicles also offered for sale.

There are a lot of people on here, who spend a lot of time and money in the restoration of classic vehicles only for the marque to be tainted.

I think a poll of the members is the only way to gauge the feeling of the community, and hopefully the admins may take not of the results.

[mayfair_man]

I work in a salvage yard and its unbelivable how many people have had their cars taken off them and crushed due to fines picked up by vehicle cloning so yes report them and ban them from the forum aswell!

[Jammy]

I have mixed views on this.

I mean on one hand I don't think its right that someone could be mislead into thinking they are buying a car that is clearly not as stated, ie a 1980s City that is badged as a 1970 Cooper.

But.

There was a time when you could reshell a mini with the shell of another legally (along time ago), so who's to know when the reshell was done, and whether it was legal at the time?!

However, I'll add my support to a ban on shelling V5s, etc without that car, since there is no grey area about this, its illegal however its done. Just with full cars, its a little more hazy!

[Jimmyarm]

Agree with GW on this, we shouldnt allow the sale of V5's without the shell at least or clearly ringed vehicles on the site.

[The Matt]

I agree with you on this GW, I know it is something that a lot of people feel strongly about.

TMF is a great source of information for Mini owners and enthusiasts and it should not be used for illegal trading under any circumstances.

We certainly would not want a vehicle sold using this site to mislead someone and result in fines, vehicle crushing, presonal loss for the buyer etc. However, I have to add that buyers also have the responsibility of checking that items are legitimate and that the item they intend to purchase is not an illegal sale (like buying a V5 for instance).

As Jammy has rightly pointed out, there are a few grey areas that we also need to look over.

Matt

[TOMMO0302]

Hmm, banning V5's is one thing, but reporting cars that have been ringed to the DVLA is another. Its too easy to get conned into buying a ringer, if i had unknowlingly purchased one and then got reported to the DVLA by the Forum and my car got crushed, needless to say i wouldn't be best pleased!

[Marky Tizz]

Yeah I think its a matter of common sense.... obviously the blatant sale of just the V5 document shouldnt be condoned, and neither should the sale of blatant ringers... but if someone gets conned, we shouldnt report them, we should do our best to help them either regain their loss, or make the car legal.
Do I make sense?

[The Matt]

Hmm, banning V5's is one thing, but reporting cars that have been ringed to the DVLA is another. Its too easy to get conned into buying a ringer, if i had unknowlingly purchased one and then got reported to the DVLA by the Forum and my car got crushed, needless to say i wouldn't be best pleased!

True, tis a sensitive area.

But ultimately, the buyer would be driving around in an illegal vehicle. They will know who sold it to them and therefore who is responsible for the illegal activity, but it could result in personal loss for the buyer.

There are many cars on the scene that are ringers, some of them are even magazine featured and Miniworld and Minimag even list details of 'reshells' etc. The whole classic car scene is rife with it!

[jack_marshall]

I agree that cloning a vehicle is wrong. As in, 2 vehicles of the same ID on the road.

And although its not right, I dont have a problem with swapping and ID from a nackered, rusty, beyond repair shell into another. As long as there is only one of that car on the road. I know its illegal and wrong etc etc, but thats my view. As long as like Jammy said, somebody is not being conned into buying a rare model which is actually a mainstream model or something.

[minimanclive]

I agree on the banning of selling V5s and VINs. But the ringed vehicles I don't agree with as you can't really tell if it's been done legititmately or not.

BMH don't sell a Mk1/2 shell, so if you want to reshell your Mk1/2 Mini into a brand new shell the only option is a BMH Mk4/5 shell. It blatantly won't be a proper Mk1/2 any more but it would be a completely legal reshell.

[incrediblerog]

no one likes a grass sure vehicle cloning is very wrong, but theres no real harm in it certainly not enough to report people to the authoritys, sounds like a sure fire way to send more minis to the big scrapheap in the sky!

[Richard]

im not sure what to put in this survey but im sure allot of the ringing is fueled by the american import legislations (vehicles over 25 years)
which seems crazy to me!

[Guess-Works.com]

It's good to see we have varied opinions, I agree to some extent with the "Who's it harming" sentiment when it comes to re-shelling, like some of the examples above, it is probably better and technically structurally safer to rebuild a vehicle with a sound body shell than patch and weld a rusty old one... but I would like to see the evidence of that re-shell in the vehicles particulars... This is already catered for within the vehicle registration scheme, and its called the "Q" plate and SVA test... Those procedures are there for a reason...

[Jammy]

But what happens if a 1969 Cooper S is reshelled with a new and unregistered Mk4 shell from BMH, only the receipt was lost?

[Guess-Works.com]

BMH ( or whoever supplied the shell ) will have a copy of the reciept in their accounts, I'm sure for a small fee they will provide you with a copy..

I was also thinking of getting a affidavit drawn up for my mk3 which is in a MK4 shell, this was bought from BMC(leyland) in the 70's to reshell the vehicle but we no longer have the reciept in the family, fortutaley the person ( grandma ) is still alive who bought the shell, she was a parts supplier for BMC.