44 replies to this topic

[1987_ParkLane]

Hi all,

I am going to put a charge cooler onto my supercharged engine, and was wondering how you plumb it in and if any modifications are to be needed. Here is my supercharger:



And I was thinking of getting a charge cooler like: LINK

Pictures would also help.

Cheers.

[john1.2pearl]

it wouldnt work with the kit you have as it is ment to go inbetween the Turbo/supercharger and the carb as it causes allsorts of fueling vaporising issues if you dont and it is the boost pressure which needs to be cooled, you couldnt use it in your setup as it has to go like so, air into the charger intake through the charger into the charge cooler then into the carb

[1987_ParkLane]

it wouldnt work with the kit you have as it is ment to go inbetween the Turbo/supercharger and the carb as it causes allsorts of fueling vaporising issues if you dont and it is the boost pressure which needs to be cooled, you couldnt use it in your setup as it has to go like so, air into the charger intake through the charger into the charge cooler then into the carb

I totall understand what you are saying, and that is one of the things I can't undersatnd about having one . I know I have seen minis with them on, and I know Vmax Scart do a kit for the carb models for £220, and was wondering if anyone had done one. I will email them later about how you fit it, etc.

[Ethel]

Water injection would be the only simple option with that blower set up. You need a temperature differential for a heat exchanger to work so you'd need some super sexy refrigeration unit to take heat out of the air before the blower and even then gods knows what it would do to the fuelling - petrol snow?

[Sam Walters]

it wouldnt work with the kit you have as it is ment to go inbetween the Turbo/supercharger and the carb as it causes allsorts of fueling vaporising issues if you dont and it is the boost pressure which needs to be cooled, you couldnt use it in your setup as it has to go like so, air into the charger intake through the charger into the charge cooler then into the carb

I totall understand what you are saying, and that is one of the things I can't undersatnd about having one . I know I have seen minis with them on, and I know Vmax Scart do a kit for the carb models for £220, and was wondering if anyone had done one. I will email them later about how you fit it, etc.

Right! That’s a suck through setup it sucks through the carburettor. Means the charge temps are hotter then the sun when any decent level of boost is used as the air is heated by the super charger well the pressure it creates really.

So carburettor --> super charger --> engine = suck through

A blow through setup does what it says on the tin it blows through the carb.

Super charger --> inter cooler --> carburettor --> engine = blow through.

So your going to say why cant i use one in between the super charger and engine, it wouldn’t work think about it. How’s the fuel going to stay aloft in that air? Its more likely going to end up on the inside of the inter cooler in a puddle.

[1987_ParkLane]

Right! That’s a suck through setup it sucks through the carburettor. Means the charge temps are hotter then the sun when any decent level of boost is used as the air is heated by the super charger well the pressure it creates really.

So carburettor --> super charger --> engine = suck through

A blow through setup does what it says on the tin it blows through the carb.

Super charger --> inter cooler --> carburettor --> engine = blow through.

So your going to say why cant i use one in between the super charger and engine, it wouldn’t work think about it. How’s the fuel going to stay aloft in that air? Its more likely going to end up on the inside of the inter cooler in a puddle.

Right, thanks for that, that clears it up for me .

[Prawn]

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but if it's of any interest, I believe the vmax scart charge cooler for suck through setups, is actually more of a chargERcooler. I was told it's a water jacket that cools the charger itself, and thus directly helps reduce charge temps. It sounds like it would work, although obviously it's not as good as a proper charge cooler.

[1987_ParkLane]

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but if it's of any interest, I believe the vmax scart charge cooler for suck through setups, is actually more of a chargERcooler. I was told it's a water jacket that cools the charger itself, and thus directly helps reduce charge temps. It sounds like it would work, although obviously it's not as good as a proper charge cooler.

Yes I've come to realise this now, might still get one though .

[THE STIG]

i would wait till you fit the kit

you will then see that the intake temp is that cold with the fuel atomizing it causes the inlet pipe to ice up

its a case of stopping it from getting to cold not to hot

unless your going for a silly amount of power then is really not needed

Edited by THE STIG, 23 April 2009 - 06:25 PM.

[1987_ParkLane]

i would wait till you fit the kit

I was going too .

[Turbo Phil]

i would wait till you fit the kit

you will then see that the intake temp is that cold with the fuel atomizing it causes the inlet pipe to ice up

its a case of stopping it from getting to cold not to hot

unless your going for a silly amount of power then is really not needed

The intake pipe temp will have little influence on the temperature you'll see after the supercharger has compressed the charge. This is when it needs to be cooled as it's the act of compression that heats it. A fuel/air mixture flowing down a tube after the carb will be cold, but it won't be once it's passed through the supercharger.

[THE STIG]

i would wait till you fit the kit

you will then see that the intake temp is that cold with the fuel atomizing it causes the inlet pipe to ice up

its a case of stopping it from getting to cold not to hot

unless your going for a silly amount of power then is really not needed

The intake pipe temp will have little influence on the temperature you'll see after the supercharger has compressed the charge. This is when it needs to be cooled as it's the act of compression that heats it. A fuel/air mixture flowing down a tube after the carb will be cold, but it won't be once it's passed through the supercharger.

yes i do know that after owning 2 super chargered engines and just building the 3rd

yes it does the intake temp is vastly lower than the normal air temp meaning it ofsets some of the temp raise caused by compressing the air

air entering the super charger at say 20c will rise to say 40c , air entering the charger at -5 will still raise by 20c so will only be 25c so intake temp affects the temp


the inlet charge temp can be that cold as to cause running problems in very cold weather hence why vmax looked at ways of raising the intake charge temp

Edited by THE STIG, 23 April 2009 - 10:48 PM.

[Wil_h]

Stiggy, stiggy, stiggy, I think you need to do some proper testing to prove your theory. As far as I can see you are promoting a pet theory with no solid facts. You need to do a comprehensive test at all throttle openings measuring the the following tempertaures:

1) ambient
2) between carb and SC
3) After SC

Looking at the Delta T of the M45 at 10 psi its 140deg F (60deg C). so even at -5 (which at a guess you'll never get) you'll still be at 55 deg C at the inlet. Much hotter than any IC'd turbo. My guess is that the icing of the inlet tract is not indicative of the air temp inside.

The issue that Vmax is trying to solve is surely that the carb is freezing bugg ering the fuelling up.

Finally, does it ice up on hot dry days in the middle of the summer, or just cold damp days?

[Turbo Phil]

This is the point I was trying to make Wil, only you worded it a bit better. Lol.

[THE STIG]

Stiggy, stiggy, stiggy, I think you need to do some proper testing to prove your theory. As far as I can see you are promoting a pet theory with no solid facts. You need to do a comprehensive test at all throttle openings measuring the the following tempertaures:

1) ambient
2) between carb and SC
3) After SC

Looking at the Delta T of the M45 at 10 psi its 140deg F (60deg C). so even at -5 (which at a guess you'll never get) you'll still be at 55 deg C at the inlet. Much hotter than any IC'd turbo. My guess is that the icing of the inlet tract is not indicative of the air temp inside.

The issue that Vmax is trying to solve is surely that the carb is freezing bugg ering the fuelling up.

Finally, does it ice up on hot dry days in the middle of the summer, or just cold damp days?

well seeing as have seen it in person on both my engines then would say i have facts

things on paper do always not translate to the real world

and figures where just to illestrate the piont

why you are comparing it to a intercooled turbo ,the guys question was about charge cooling his super charger as stated he cant do it as cant fit between supercharger and manifold always seems to be a turbos are better the superchargers when has nothing to do with the post

yes problem is fuel freezing as have stated several times on here , so the inlet tract icing has nothing to do with the air temp in side it ?

and ice's up even on the hottest summers day