69 replies to this topic

[jaydee]

REAR BEAM AXLE.
i woulndt fit them in anything different from a full race trackday mini.
(this will start a debate, im sure...)

[Cooperman]

I did say thing you don't actually need to make your mini go better. I did not say things you might buy for other reasons.
For example, you certainly don't need 4-pot and/or vented brakes. I can tell you that my 1964 rally car with about 115 bhp runs with 7.5" dia standard 'S' discs and standard calipers. It never runs out of stopping power even on very twisty tarmac rallies so long as I keep the discs in good order and change them after every 10 or so ralies and use carbon-metallic pads with AP600 race brake fluid. My discs may get red hot, but always work fine.
Rear disc brakes are just something devised by some manufacturers to make you spend money unnecessarily. The rear brakes on a Mini are pressure limited and do very little work. On Mini racing cars in the 60's some drivers used to blank off the rear brakes to give a better 'pedal' for the fronts - that's how much work they actually do. With discs on the back they would never even get warm enough to work efficiently.
To improve your Mini you don't need the other bits I've listed either.
Buy them to make yourselves feel better and spend your cash by all means, it's your money, but I was trying to take some of the myth out of the tuning market and help some on here to spend what they are able to afford more wisely on parts which would help with the overall performance. Some want to improve their cars but have a limited budget.
I was talking about road-going Minis. Racing Minis with sticky racing tyres, frequent engine builds, etc, may well need the parts I've mentioned. I use vernier timing gears because I strip and re-build my engine frequently. For one-off engine builds wherer the engine will doa lot of miles I use offset woodruff keys to time in the cam and save about £60 a time.
Disagree if you wish, it's your cash, not mine.

[jaydee]

Wow this is a stupid thread... all these items are on sale to the public because there is a demand for them, and they sell! they sell because they all work and serve a purpose!!

Thats why it isnt a silly topic, and it can be more interesting than discussing about carbs, cams and timing, if all of us just try to have a constructive discussion.

[minimininut]

Maybe if people think of the thread as 'things that can go to the bottom of the list' for people to look at and make up their own minds. As a complete novice I think it's a useful ito have information about what actually helps performance and what is potentially gimmickry advertising to make people spend money!

I think if a list was provided you'd need to have some sort of pros and cons against each mod, so you have both arguments. WHich is what had started to develop in this thread, sort of anyway. Thanks to all the info, I've learnt why there's no real need for rear disc brakes now

Edited by minimininut, 25 September 2009 - 08:56 PM.

[Cooperman]

Wow this is a stupid thread... all these items are on sale to the public because there is a demand for them, and they sell! they sell because they all work and serve a purpose!!

I'm sorry you think this is a 'stupid' thread. Your comment about there being a demand for them provides my reason for this posting.
There are many owners on here who genuinly want to improve their cars but who have a limited budget. We see threads asking if, for example, a 296 cam would be good for a 998 road car, whether 1.5:1 roller rockers are a perfomance improver, etc, etc.
I was attempting to help by listing what is really not necessary to improve a car.
The real purpose a lot of the parts on sale serve is to generate a profit for the manufacturers out of the lack of knowledge of the owners.
But them, since I only have 48 years experience with competition Mini preparation, what do I know about anything?

[Burnard]

I think this is actually a very good idea for a thread and you should stop slating him for it.

This is a thread to let people know things that you DONT NEED, on an everyday road going mini.

It is NOT him telling you these things are rubbish, and are a complete waste of money, serve no purpouse and should be banned from all of humanity.


I will agree with you on all those points.

You dont need 4 pot brakes, you dont need any wheels wider than 5 inches, you dont need mini fin rear drums. Yes they are better at what they do, but on an everyday road car, you are very unlikly to notice the difference.

[Paul Wiginton]

It depends on what you want your road car to do of course

Paul

[mini93]

should be fairly obvious thought shouldnt it??

also you may well have what ever brakes on your rally car...but remember the everyday mini doesnt have tip top brake fluid, nor carbon metalic pads, etc etc.
what if the cars fully loaded, 4/5 up and luggage going down a big hill, thats probably the time your most likely going to get fade and mini fins are going to help and alloy callipers perhaps they want 10 inch wheels....and while not being neccesary, could complete the look and then getting tyres some rims for example the 032's on 5 inch rims...look rediculas.
and the 6 inch wide thing doesnt really compair to the rest of your items on your list, guy said a rear beam isnt good for a road car, thats a good example.
timing chain, yes id get that also due to the fact it isnt going to stretch as much, your engine may well last longer, just as easy to get an alan key and adjust timing than go through efford of getting key way things

[benpopham]

It depends on what you want your road car to do of course

Paul

Exactly,

what if your building a very lightweight road mini? not everybody has the same needs from their road minis.

[Paul Wiginton]

My point is that I live in Milton Keynes, city of roundabouts. Negative camber is very handy round here, aswell as a bigger than 266 cam to be able to hold your line while chav idiots and BMWs are trying to pass you on the inside of a roundabout........Im talking about my daily driver here, the Sprint is fun on the road but too much to be honest

Paul

[Cooperman]

Maybe I should have started a thread listing the order and importance of improvements rather than list the things which, IMHO, are definately not necessary to improve the performance of a road-going Mini.
The reason I listed what is not necessary is because of all the posts where owners with limited budgets have been reading the 'Mini Comics' (you know the ones I mean) and have read about Minis with all sorts of fancy parts fitted. They genuinley don't know what, if any, are the advantages of those parts.
Take wheels, for example. With a 10" or 12" wheel, the maximum width road tyre is a 165 section (unless you go for sticky slick racing tyres - illegal for the road), so a max wheel width of 5", or maybe 5.5" is sufficient. To go wider is definately a waste of money in performance terms. But there are parts dealers who will sell you some 6" x 10" or 7" x 12" wheels at greater cost than the 5" ones and from which you'll see no further improvement.
Racing and rallying are different and when I prep a car I have in mind the ultimate use and the regulations to which it must adhere. For example, a tarmac rally car will be set-up differently from a gravel-spec car, or will have adjustable suspension, etc, to cope with whatever event it's going to do next.
I was just trying to help those on a limited budget.
In fact, there has just been a thread posted asking about cylinder heads and 1.5:1 roller rockers and how much improvement they'll give (answer - very little). He is on a budget so it's important. Over £120 for a set of rockers could be better spent on something more beneficial.
Just trying to help folks.

[Paul Wiginton]

Must admit my daily driver has servo assisted S brakes with Minifins and theyre better than the fancy brakes on my Sprint.

I do hate all this stage 2, stage 3 crap. Its all a marketing ploy to sound good.

Paul

[GAGSINIO]

Just a quick reply from a newbie- spoke to a guy who raced Coopers in the 70's, and he reckons, if you put Discs on the rear, then you are going to be in a hedge pretty quickly. The mini is essentially a box and if you braked in anything other than a straight line, everything would transfer your equilibrium into a shrubbery. The drums are there, more to keep you in a straight line(ish)LOL

[Burnard]

Regarding the 'stages'

Isnt it:

stage one: exaust and manifolds
Stage two: stage one plus engine head
Stage three: stage 1 and 2, plus different rockers?

Or am im completle rong and they just make up numbers?

[Paul Wiginton]

It depends who you speak to really , they all say different.

Rear disks will only send you in a hedge if theyre set up wrong, mine on my Sprint are biased to barely do anything. Theyre only to provide a very good line lock and save weight as it essentially a dragster but very good fun on the road, but no theyre not needed for general road use.

Paul