69 replies to this topic

[Cooperman]

No, they just make up the numbers to sound good.
Years ago one campany, can't remember which one (was it Alexanders?), used to use the terms 'Phase 1, 2 etc'.
All just b******t really.
To came back to vernier timing gears. A duplex timing chain is a really good thing to fit. However, it takes between 30 minutes and 60 minutes to accurately time-in a cam rom scratch using offset woodruff keys and re-check the timing. A non-vernier set of duplex timing gears costs about £25 including chain, whilst a vernier set can cost about £80. A set of offset woodruff keys costs just a few quid. So, to spend £80 on a vernier timing gear set is UNNECESSARY to obtain better performance if you are on a budget. If money is no object, as it seems with some, then fine, spend the £80. But if it's a choice of vernier gears, or offset key plus, say, a decent pair of dampers for the same total price, then for those on a budget, the answer should be obvious.
That's what my initial list is for. Sorry for those who cannot see it.

[Paul Wiginton]

Got one for you, 16v K bike heads - rubbish

Paul

[HARBER07]

We see threads asking if, for example, a 296 cam would be good for a 998 road car

If you meant mine, its because I WANT a cammy engine, and wanted to know what the characteristics were as I've never used it before.

Edited by HARBER07, 25 September 2009 - 09:49 PM.

[HARBER07]

No, they just make up the numbers to sound good.
Years ago one campany, can't remember which one (was it Alexanders?), used to use the terms 'Phase 1, 2 etc'.
All just b******t really.
To came back to vernier timing gears. A duplex timing chain is a really good thing to fit. However, it takes between 30 minutes and 60 minutes to accurately time-in a cam rom scratch using offset woodruff keys and re-check the timing. A non-vernier set of duplex timing gears costs about £25 including chain, whilst a vernier set can cost about £80. A set of offset woodruff keys costs just a few quid. So, to spend £80 on a vernier timing gear set is UNNECESSARY to obtain better performance if you are on a budget. If money is no object, as it seems with some, then fine, spend the £80. But if it's a choice of vernier gears, or offset key plus, say, a decent pair of dampers for the same total price, then for those on a budget, the answer should be obvious.
That's what my initial list is for. Sorry for those who cannot see it.

I use a vernier belt drive - . The point is really, you buy what suits your needs? Everything on my car is on there for a purpose. If someone fits something to their car without knowing if its needed or not then generally its not.

Edited by HARBER07, 25 September 2009 - 09:54 PM.

[jaydee]

Regarding the 'stages'

Isnt it:

stage one: exaust and manifolds
Stage two: stage one plus engine head
Stage three: stage 1 and 2, plus different rockers?

Or am im completle rong and they just make up numbers?

In my opinion, you'd better dont mind the stages, and take them as a definiton of tuning parts cetegories (pointless imho).
Saying 'i have a stage 2 mini', sound very childish to me..and im not the only one!

[Shifty]

Tom.........

You mean "Bwop ......Bwop......Bwop.....BRRRRRRRAMMMMMMMM"

The problem with lists like this is its an entirely personal choice, i'd consider the 266 to be a girls cam and wouldn't even fit it to my wifes car.!!

For most people their mini is a weekend toy and therefore don't need it be docile. As has already been said we all want different things from our cars and sometimes whether they are the best option or not isn't a consideration, we just want to be a bit different.

Theres probably a few things on that list that i'd disagree with, what exactly do you mean by "Coil springs" Coil overs or the coils spring conversion kits that are getting good reviews?

[HARBER07]

For most people their mini is a weekend toy and therefore don't need it be docile. As has already been said we all want different things from our cars and sometimes whether they are the best option or not isn't a consideration, we just want to be a bit different.

SHIFTY

[Cooperman]

No, they just make up the numbers to sound good.
Years ago one campany, can't remember which one (was it Alexanders?), used to use the terms 'Phase 1, 2 etc'.
All just b******t really.
To came back to vernier timing gears. A duplex timing chain is a really good thing to fit. However, it takes between 30 minutes and 60 minutes to accurately time-in a cam rom scratch using offset woodruff keys and re-check the timing. A non-vernier set of duplex timing gears costs about £25 including chain, whilst a vernier set can cost about £80. A set of offset woodruff keys costs just a few quid. So, to spend £80 on a vernier timing gear set is UNNECESSARY to obtain better performance if you are on a budget. If money is no object, as it seems with some, then fine, spend the £80. But if it's a choice of vernier gears, or offset key plus, say, a decent pair of dampers for the same total price, then for those on a budget, the answer should be obvious.
That's what my initial list is for. Sorry for those who cannot see it.

I use a vernier belt drive - . The point is really, you buy what suits your needs? Everything on my car is on there for a purpose. If someone fits something to their car without knowing if its needed or not then generally its not.

You have a belt drive because you can afford one not because it give you a real increase in power. If you were buying only what is really necessary to make a Mini go better and balancing that against a tight budget, then you might well have to choose between that or, say, a better suspension set-up. The better suspension would improve the performance more if going from standard suspension than a belt-driven cam which won't give much, if any, increased bhp in an old A-Series engine..
I've had customers who have told me that they only have £xxx. Then they say they think they want all sorts of parts they have read about and which are actually unnecessary. I didn't say not desireable, I said unnecessary. There is a big difference.
I guess I'm lucky inasmuch as when I work on my own cars, money is not such an issue. But that is not the case for many and I do feel sorry when I see young Mini enthusiasts who may not be very technically minded, but who just want their Mini to go a bit better, but who get seduced into buying unnecessary parts by marketing 'spin'.
If this thread helps them, good. If others want to spend on desireable, but not totally necessary parts, then good luck to them and I'm sorry if my attempts to help are not taken in the spirit in which I had intended them.
Maybe I shouldn't bother trying to help.

[Paul Wiginton]

Ill say it Cooperman, at the beginning of this topic it did sound as if you were just having a bit of a dig, even though you are genuinely trying to help with the many years knowledge that I know you have. I get the impression some on here (not digging at anyone) took you the wrong way and feel the need to bite back and defend their purchases.
I think I have every item you fist listed fitted on my Sprint but my requirements of that car are extreme.
On my daily drive though I do genuinely believe the negative camber is of benefit round MK due to Minis usually having positive camber on the back.
6" wheels are a styling choice though which is usually most important to people.

Paul

[mini93]

also adjustable neg camber brackets, if somethings bent elsewhere, subframe for example, as mine is slightly, i was able to tune that out with the brackets saving me money on not buying a new subframe

[g8ndj]

I don't agree with the vented discs they really do increase stopping power but if the brakes are to powerful (4pot calibers) then you just lock up as most road tyres can't keep up.

[Cooperman]

I think you are quite right there Paul.
On my Historic Rally Cooper 'S' I have absolutely everything which is homologated under the old 'Group 2'. regulations. It has 1.5 neg bottom arms, adjustable tie bars, strengthened sub-frames and suspension/sub-frame pick up points. The engine is a 117 bhp lump with a 286 cam and offset roller-tip rockers (2 bhp improvement at 6200). The transmission is SC CR everything with SC drops, a 3.9 diff, and a cross-pin diff (I can't get on with LSD's on gravel). It has FIA cage, seats, belts, fireproofing, braided brake lines, inside fuel lines and battery/brake lines, a prototype full sump guard which was too expensive to produce for the mass markets, 4.5" Minilites and 5" BWA wheels, 6 of each. Distributor is an Aldon Special Custom-built unit. Brakes are as homologated 7.5" discs with carbon-metallic pads and AP 600 race brake fluid. Lights are twin Super Oscars with 100W bulbs. In fact it's value is c.£26000.
However, that's a proper competition car with results to prove it.
What I was trying to do was to help those on a limited budget to get their Mini to go better and to avoid buying unnecessary parts due to marketing hype.
If that was taken the wrong way then I'm sorry. I do genuinely try to help younger Mini owners to improve their cars. The number of younger guys who come around just to ask for advice is quite high and my 14-year old grandson knows more about Minis than many. He has restored a 1986 Mayfair to 1061 cc with 66 bhp at 6000 rpm which he re-built on a very strict budget. In fact he's helping to complete a 1967 850 restoration for a chap in our village.
Maybe we should post a list of priorities for spending a limited budget, although no doubt I would be told I was wrong and that my list, like suspension and brakes first, then transmission, then engine, would not suit the pre-conceived opinions of some.
When I was a student I was told by a well known racing driver of the time, "It's no good getting more power unless you can put it down on the ground". The other pearl of wisdom was, " if you can brake later and go round the corner 5 mph faster, you'll be 5 mph faster all the way down the next straight and carry that extra 5 mph nearer to the next corner". The other thing I learned was "Make 'em laugh and you're halfway there", but that was nothing to do with cars!

Edited by Cooperman, 25 September 2009 - 10:57 PM.

[silva_mini]

I must say I cant agree with the listing of the neg camber brackets, but good idea for a thread, has created some interesting discussion

I agree with chrome, especially the chrome wipers, which are awful. Its painful watching people fit chrome parts and they wonder a year later why its all pitting and rusting, waste of money.

Surely the "quickshift gear levers - aka gearbox wreckers" can be added to the list?!

[Cooperman]

I must say I cant agree with the listing of the neg camber brackets, but good idea for a thread, has created some interesting discussion

I agree with chrome, especially the chrome wipers, which are awful. Its painful watching people fit chrome parts and they wonder a year later why its all pitting and rusting, waste of money.

Surely the "quickshift gear levers - aka gearbox wreckers" can be added to the list?!

I put in the neg camber brackets because you can get the same result with a square piece of board, a file, a 6" steel rule, a couple of big washers and a MIG welder. Much cheaper for the same result. Remember, I'm trying to keep the budget down.

Totally agree on the 'quickshift' gear change lever. Good for the people making them though, and for gearbox re-builders who must love them. Actually I have chrome wipers on my '64 and '66 cars, but they were original fitments back then.
I was really only listing performance related items.

[Sherlock]

My modified 1981 Mini HL, with which I am very happy, conforms to most of Cooperman's list, the only point I would raise is that I do have adjustable rear camber brackets because after fitting a new rear frame, the angles were not right. I have a '948' profile cam, gas flowed head, original HS4 SU on MG Metro inlet, LCB & Maniflow 1.75" system. I use drum brakes, they cause me no problem, so why change them? Someone mentioned vernier timing belts, there is no way I will have any vehicle with a timing belt, I can just about live with a chain, but I subscribe to the Rolls Royce theory on that, such things should ideally be gear driven.