40 replies to this topic

[Scallywag630]

Im no expert at car body repair, but i cant see how anyone in a sane mind could think that was an acceptable way to fix the bodywork??

The Arthur Daley car dealers would do it without a second thought.

[evansisgreat]

So do I win then???

Surely you mean lose?

[bamby]

question is you need to ask yourself is do the sills need doing for the MOT ? If not then I would leave them be for the moment and save the money to get the job done properly when it needs it and do it belt and braces.

Mine has oversills fitted (also had new inners and doorsteps) cost me £200 - so wasnt bad BUT I know the floor will need doing at somepoint down the line so I might as well get it all redone then when it needs it. Just an idea to keep in mind

[gregh55]

wow! these prices are mad! i had over sills and it was a real mess. . . . .but a full resto has cost me £800 and its been done very very well! i cant belive its going to cost £700+ to repair/replace over sills

[hundred]

I have literally just finished doing mine on my project. Originally I found that one of the captive nuts on my subframe mount had come off, mine had 8" oversills on so I thought I might as well change to genuine sills while i was at it. To my amazement I found this

 inner_sill1.jpg   167.28K   52 downloads

After inspection I found that I needed new inner sills, door steps, floor panels as they had rusted badly where they join the inner sill, rear subframe mounts and outer sills. I did not fit a jacking point as I never intend to use it.

After a call to Mini Machine i ordered 2 x extended inner sills that easily covered all my grot, this cost me about £80 delivered. I also went to Mini Spares at Harrogate and bought the 2 subframe mount repair panels, 2 non gen door steps and 2 genuine outer sills, about £80.

I cut the inner sill and floor out to where I could weld the new panel in

 inner_sill2.jpg   174.45K   32 downloads

Then modified the subframe mounts and welded the over sill on. This is a picture before I have grinded the plug welds off

 inner_sill3.jpg   141.11K   44 downloads

I am a relative newcomer to car restoration (this is my first) and am learning as I go, but I have to say I found this relatively easy to do myself.

Basically what I am trying to say is that if you are confident enough to try it for yourself then it is relatively straight forward to do and will cost you a fraction of the cost.

Hope this helps

Edited by hundred, 25 April 2010 - 10:51 PM.

[Scallywag630]

As a matter of interest, why did you plug weld the lower edge? Why not seam weld it? That what the MOT guys will look for.

[hundred]

I had a word with my MOT guy last week when I took my daily runner in and he said that the outer sill was spot welded in the factory so plug welds every couple of inches would be sufficient. If this is not the case then please advise as it would be a heck of a lot easier to seam weld at this stage rather than have to do it once its painted. I was originally planning on seam welding but given the advice I received I decided on plug welds as they look neater.

As a matter of interest, why did you plug weld the lower edge? Why not seam weld it? That what the MOT guys will look for.

[Scallywag630]

I had a word with my MOT guy last week when I took my daily runner in and he said that the outer sill was spot welded in the factory so plug welds every couple of inches would be sufficient. If this is not the case then please advise as it would be a heck of a lot easier to seam weld at this stage rather than have to do it once its painted. I was originally planning on seam welding but given the advice I received I decided on plug welds as they look neater.

As a matter of interest, why did you plug weld the lower edge? Why not seam weld it? That what the MOT guys will look for.

I have been told by numerous MOT testers that only a seam weld would be acceptable. This is because it is a repair. You can never replicate a factory spot weld. Seam welding is stronger anyway.

[sonikk4]

So if you take modern car thats been in an accident to a body shop all they do is spot weld panels on like damaged sills, rear panels etc. This is to the same standard as the factory build.

If you replace a sill on a mini say a standard 4 1/2 inch sill and plug weld instead of spot weld then you are not replicating exactly what was done originally but in my eyes the plugs are actually bigger than the standard spot welds hence stronger. Its a replacement not a repair, that is my arguement. Providing the spacing is correct what is the problem.

If you chop out a floor pan then yes this will need to be seam welded as well but you can spot weld or plug weld where it joins to the door step.

Providing you mirror the amount of spot welds that were originally welded to the car then the MOT station can not complain.

I have been welding cars on and off now for 20 + years and have never had a car fail its mot for any welding that i have carried out whether its plug welds or seam welds.

If i had any concerns with regards to the strength of plug welds then i would not be using them on my sons mini project.

[Scallywag630]

So if you take modern car thats been in an accident to a body shop all they do is spot weld panels on like damaged sills, rear panels etc. This is to the same standard as the factory build.

If you replace a sill on a mini say a standard 4 1/2 inch sill and plug weld instead of spot weld then you are not replicating exactly what was done originally but in my eyes the plugs are actually bigger than the standard spot welds hence stronger. Its a replacement not a repair, that is my arguement. Providing the spacing is correct what is the problem.

If you chop out a floor pan then yes this will need to be seam welded as well but you can spot weld or plug weld where it joins to the door step.

Providing you mirror the amount of spot welds that were originally welded to the car then the MOT station can not complain.

I have been welding cars on and off now for 20 + years and have never had a car fail its mot for any welding that i have carried out whether its plug welds or seam welds.

If i had any concerns with regards to the strength of plug welds then i would not be using them on my sons mini project.

Hey...I'm only passing on what I have been told. Its your car, do what you like with it. All I know is that on my car (which will be my son's next year) the new sills are seam welded on MOT and professional welder advice.

[Frog]

My mini has oversills on it at the moment (which I didn't notice when I bought it because I was a newbie .. )

anyway I want to have the Inner and outer sills replaced and the door steps (I'm guessing the inners are a mess),

Can anyone give me a rough estimate of what this will cost? I know it wont be nice

Thanks,
Josh

I have done this sort of job on several cars over the years & it really can vary from car to car but a starting price would be in the region of £600, obviosly if you have to replace the full inner sill then this cost can go up rather drastically.

[daemonchild]

All these pictures go to show that what you don't know really can hurt you!
Imagine some of these in a crash...

[midridge2]

If you are putting a new sill on the car its a replacement panel, not a repair panel so you can either seam weld, spot weld or plug weld or a mixture of them all and if the welding is up to MOT standard it will pass.
its only repair panels and patches that have to be fully seam welded.

[Scallywag630]

If you are putting a new sill on the car its a replacement panel, not a repair panel so you can either seam weld, spot weld or plug weld or a mixture of them all and if the welding is up to MOT standard it will pass.
its only repair panels and patches that have to be fully seam welded.

This is where the question arises....some MOT testers my say that a replacement panel is a repair, after all you are putting the panel on to repair the car.

[Ethel]

I agree with Midridge. Seam welds are for where you are making a join where one didn't originally exist.

Personally I'd prefer a proper lap joint with spots/plugs. A seam weld may be strong but it thins and weakens the metal next to it. Try with a bit of scrap, it'll bend 'n snap next to the weld.

If you are putting a new sill on the car its a replacement panel, not a repair panel so you can either seam weld, spot weld or plug weld or a mixture of them all and if the welding is up to MOT standard it will pass.
its only repair panels and patches that have to be fully seam welded.

This is where the question arises....some MOT testers my say that a replacement panel is a repair, after all you are putting the panel on to repair the car.