61 replies to this topic

[deanymini]

i went to jonspeed yesterday cus i was planning on getting him to fit a turbo to my 1275, however, he told me that turbos have no end of problems and are unreliable. he then said that i could get the 120 bhp that im looking for from a 1380. does anyone think that 120 bhp from a 1380 with 286 scatter cam and modded head is a tad ambitious?

[DaveCoxon]

Metro turbo engines are unreliable because peeps pull them straight from a metro which has already been run into the ground, and with nothing more than a coat of paint, install them into a mini expecting trouble-free motoring.

If you start from the outset, with the intention of building a turbo - and prepare the engine suitably - ie a suitable CR, Decent pistons, perfectly flat head and block, rebuilt gearbox, rebuilt carb and turbo, and setup correctly, it'll give (power for power), a much longer life, nicer drivability and far more torque than a 1380.

Sounds to me like Jonspeed know nothing about turbos, but want your business, so are trying to sell you what (little) they know...

[deanymini]

he says that he looks after 2 ERA turbo minis and they are always coming in with problems, and to be fair he does have 30 years of experience with minis.

does anyone know the 0-60 time of a 1380 mini with roughly 120 bhp

[The Matt]

If you are going to fit a 'turbo onto your 1275' it aint just a straightforward fit. The turbo engines require a lower compression ratio to a standard engine (in most cases) so it would need some modding to the pistons or head, or both.

A rebuilt turbo can be a damn good way of acheiving more power, but a 1380 is also less work. To run a turbo you need to modify the bulkhead of the car (in most cases anyway).

I reckon a good 1380 can see 120BHP, it's all down to how much money you want to spend on components I guess.

[Oldskoolbaby]

The ERAs were not any different from anyother turbo install. If your planning on fitting a turbo, the A seires needs finishing off really. I bet if those ERAs were stripped down, their engine tolerances willl be no different to any other 1300 A seires even though they are being force fed.
Id just fit a tuftided crank, good quality, low compresion pistons and a decent head gasket. Have both the block and head skimmed so the mate perfectly and again, fit good quality bearings eveywhere. As for cam choice, you certanly dont need anything too lairy. Its just all down to good engine preparation.

[blue racing clubman]

he says that he looks after 2 ERA turbo minis and they are always coming in with problems, and to be fair he does have 30 years of experience with minis.

does anyone know the 0-60 time of a 1380 mini with roughly 120 bhp

my clubbys a 1398cc block,
vmax c/head
45 weber
on sc/cr box sc drops

it produced 120hp @ flywheel and 103 @ wheels

maybe producing a approx 123 @ flywheel since i changed from points
to aldon ignitor,


on 10" alloys its got loads of torque....id guess th 0-60 on it is about 6-7 secs

a standard metro turbo engine is about 95bhp
but theres lots you can do with a turbo to get more power than that,,

to get back to your origional question a well built turbo engine without
a stupid boost setting should be reliable,an intercooler is an essential for it though.

an old knackered mg turbo engine just chucked straight in is gonna be unreliable..

same goes for a 1380,a well built one should deliver power and be reliable
a badly designed one will be unreliable.if you go for a 1380/weber stup
be sure to have it properly jetted and r/roaded..

personally i would have either ,a turbo or a well built 1380,
one things for sure ,you can have major fun in both.

i love out accelerating big exec cars ,it really pisses them of to see this little mini
opening a can of whoop ass on em

:grin: :grin:

[Don't Panic]

Wheel size makes a big difference too, if your looking for big acceleration go for 10's

anyone considered nitrous on a 1380, or a 1293 :tongue: ?

[DaveCoxon]

Ok, so he's had two ERA engines in.

And?

I'll bet those had 40K + miles on them?

Ask mr Jonspeed to build you a 1380 that'll put out the same power and torque as those ERA's, whilst maintaining the drivability and economy of those ERA's. Oh - and of course - last as long as the ERA's.

There is a reason why Rover never made a mini with a 1380 bore, and a 286 cam. It is not a combination for a reliable, high power, drivable powerplant.


I'm also really sceptical about why these ERA's keep coming back with problems. Didn't he fix them right the first, second, third, etc... time?

[stormduck]

There shouldn't be any problems with nitrous providing it's done correctly (like everything!). Using a progressive controller is the only way to ensure most of the problems during combustion with nitrous are dramatically reduced. An old friend hit 182bhp on the rollers using nitrous on his 1.25 litre zetec fiesta. It lasted a long time as it was done as properly as possible, until the nitrous fuel line split and sent it up in flames.

ARP head bolts and studs are a must.

[mini1071s]

The turbo motor will be much more pleasant to drive, give much better performance and has the scope to up the boost for a little track day fun. The stresses in an engine rise with the square of the speed, so building RELIABLE high revving 1380's is an art.

Turbo engines will produce getting on for 50% more torque and it is torque that provides acceleration, not hp.

£ for £ there is no substitute for a well built turbo. Jonspeed, LOL. That's all I have to say about my prior dealings with them. 30 years and still can't make a turbo run right. Hmmmmm....

Dave's (hi Dave, back monday, give us a call!), engine with the smaller T2 turbo makes 170 ft lbs of torque at low rpm!!!! That's 3 litre engine torque. You will never match that with a nat asp motor.

Nitrous is great, especially for every day economy engines. A 1380 with an SW5 cam, good head with emphasis on exhaust flow will be a really nice street engine, give good mpg, and will take 50 bhp of N20 with ease using decent pistons which will feel like warp drive! For more gas, then step down on the bore size to 1293 as you need strong cylinders, the same as a high boost turbo motor. Don't use big cams with nitrous as you will just blow the charge out of the cylinder on overlap and loose power. The ultimate nitrous cam has to be the Avonbar phase 2 turbo cam, as it has a street freindly inlet timing, 264 degrees approx, along with radical exhaust timing to clear the charge. I will be building one of these for our new magazine as a project engine. (Shhhh!).

For more on turbos take a look at www.turbominis.co.uk and look at the FAQ and search for the info and look out for the new tech and resto mini magazine to be announced soon! PM me if you need more help.

[deanymini]

yeah there is a reason why rover never made a 1380 with a 286 cam and its called customers needs. the average mini driver is perfectly happy with 50 bhp.

do you really think these ERAs would keep coming back if he was doing a bad job on them? mr jonspeed has 30 years experience of working on minis day in day out. i think i'll take his advice before yours

[mini1071s]

Have you driven a 286? I have. It is really unpleasant. Less torque than a 998....Up to you what you choose, it's your car after all, but thats my advice based on 16 years of building, racing daily driver minis. Also, Dave's car runs 13 second quarter miles .

How many race winning cars run Jonspeed engines? Morspeed are very good, very well priced and build miglia engines. Worth a look, as are avonbar, Vmax scart etc.

Why ask our opinions if you dont want them.

[DaveCoxon]

Sounds like you want to buy off Jonspeed and nothing else?
Well crack on and take Jonspeeds advice, and don't ask others for advice then.

IMO, he knows little to nothing about turbo setups. I suspect he doesn't know what a compressor map is, let alone A/R or Trim.
He knows what he knows, and clearly is swaying his services towards his 'speciality' - ie conventional 1380 engines that are probably little or no different to what Vizard and others built 20 years ago.

I'm not going to get into a flame-war here, but you offered advice, stating that your engine guy says turbo's are unreliable. Myself and others challenged this, saying they're not - suggesting that amateur builds or stupidity is the reason for this - but you stick to your guns. That's fine. But I wouldn't for one minute suggest that Jonspeed knows more than myself, bud or 1071 about Turbo's.
I'm no expert or guru, but I know sufficient to know that your man is mis-informed or mistaken.


ps - if all you want is 120bhp, get along to that 'portable rollign road' that appears at MITP ocasionally. stock 998's make upwards of 70hp on them rollers. Not sure what magic he does, but sadly minis don't stay in tune for long thafter, as they're back to their standard power outputs next time you put it on a different set of rollers...

[Bluemini]

Lets keep this civil please people.

My cluby had 104bhp at the wheels from a 1380 I built and now races with no probs. Personal opinion would be go down the NAS route and stay clear of turbo's unless you do an extensive build to make it strong and reliable. I agree with what Jonspeed is saying that you can get that kind of power from a 1380, defo at the flywheel but maybe with a higher spec than you plan to run.

Either way tho, the weekest link if your going to build a big power engine isn't going to be the engine, it'll be the gear box.

[Bluemini]

Have you driven a 286? I have. It is really unpleasant.

That all depends on what you class as unpleasant tho. I ran a 296 and it was fine in my opinion and this was on a road/racer. It was less lumpy than everyone makes out.