45 replies to this topic

[RayBoogs]

yeah same, so much money i hate to think about it.

[Spannerhead]

Well, in the end, the rust was only £125 to fix, but it still wont go through emissions, I'm on my third garage now to try to sort it. This guy knows MPi's well and is certain he can get it through .....

[Boycie]

I sympathise with you guys having to spend out so much on MPi Minis.

My 1975 car is untouched apart from a patch on the outer sill (drivers side). However, I think one of the best times for Minis was the early 80s, just before the 12" wheel cars came in- check out how good some W, X, Y and A plate cars still are. Then the Mini 25 came along and it was downhill all the way from there?!

I think paint quality/ amount also has a lot to do with it..

[xBR4DLEY]

I sympathise with you guys having to spend out so much on MPi Minis.

My 1975 car is untouched apart from a patch on the outer sill (drivers side). However, I think one of the best times for Minis was the early 80s, just before the 12" wheel cars came in- check out how good some W, X, Y and A plate cars still are. Then the Mini 25 came along and it was downhill all the way from there?!

I think paint quality/ amount also has a lot to do with it.

I know what you mean about how good the W , X , Y's and A's are as theres an X down the road from me with minor surface rust
My A reg on the otherhand isnt - look at thread
I reckon some of my panels have come out fine , like my front end , seen people with big gaping holes in there front end and mine only had surface rust :/

[minidaves]

I can normally get them through a cat test

[Sprocket]

I sympathise with you guys having to spend out so much on MPi Minis.

My 1975 car is untouched apart from a patch on the outer sill (drivers side). However, I think one of the best times for Minis was the early 80s, just before the 12" wheel cars came in- check out how good some W, X, Y and A plate cars still are. Then the Mini 25 came along and it was downhill all the way from there?!

I think paint quality/ amount also has a lot to do with it..

Sorry but I do not agree. I had a 76 N reg and that sucumbed to rot in 91. I also had an 83 A reg and it was full of rot back in 94. We also had a 93 L reg and that had new sills on it at 5 before it really became a rot problem with the front end blistering through from the inside at 8, and the current 95 M had new sills, repaired inner sills, boot floor repair, boot hinge panel and rear valance back in 2006.

The only reason some are better than others is the way they have been looked after by their previous owners. If it is sat in a garage most of its life, and never sees the wet weather, especialy winter, its going to last longer than others.

Rot on an MPi at 10 years old, is no different. What you have to consider is that in 1965, Minis would need sills as a result of rot. That is only 5 years old. My Dad can bear witness to that!

[Boycie]

I agree Sprocket- there is no rule about how they rust...

but I must say, before Austin-Rover quality control came in, shells hardly EVER seemed to go in the scuttle, around the front and rear screens, below the side windows etc after 5 or 6 years.

Sure, the 60s and 70s cars rotted out around the underside, but seldomly in the above areas. I don't think the later shells had enough (any) internal paint in the above areas- good old cost cutting probably, and for this reason.... along with the fact that by the time the Mini was axed it was an expensive car- I cannot forgive Rover for their slack quality control measures!!!

[Sprocket]

What you have to really consider is the increase in traffic, and therefore the increased highway maintenance during the winter over the last 20 years, never mind over the last 50 years and that might give an answer to your reasoning.

Bottom line is the Mini was the first Monocoque production car, and as such, it has inherant design flaws where rust prevention is concerned, compared to modern cars using the exact same steel. Rust prevention processes as well as 10s of 100s of other processes, have changed as a result of tighter regulations on the use of toxic and poisonous substances. Simply saying that solely Austin Rover was to blame, is simply not true.

Any car is designed to have a life of 10 years. Some will last longer, some won't. Why would you manufacture a car that would last 30 years? No one would buy new cars.

we now look at this differently as the Mini is now a cherished car, not just one that you throw away and buy a new one. The Mini is a 1950's design and 1950s faults come with it.

How old is your washing machine? most don't last 5 years any more.

[Nu2mini]

I think Sprocket has summarised the facts very well.

One way this is demonstrated is to take a look at the two pictures below. They are both pictures of the underside of MX5's (My other guilty pleasure). Picture 1 shows the underside of a typical 1996 UK spec car. Picture 2 is from a Japaneese import registered in 1991. Despite being 5 years older I think it's pretty obvious which one is in better nick.

 UKCar_1996.jpg   61.67K   12 downloads

 Import_Car_1991.jpg   57.43K   13 downloads

I'm lucky and can garage my 93 SPI. It never intentionaly sees a wet road and certainly never ventures out in winter unless its absolutely bone dry. All the shell is original and if I'm lucky enough, given it's current rot rate, still has at least another 15 years in it.

[JonnyBMX]

sorry to hear, but minis are prone to rust anyways...its something u have to be aware of when u buy the cars.

[all4sreturns]

It is scary how bad the later minis seem to go. It is certainly true that alot of cars do start rusting away after 10 years, though I used to have a 12 year old Peugeot gti and there was not evena sniff of rust.
I have a 1971 Morris which I am currently rebuilding. I stripped it down to bare metal, and the only rust was a 50p size hole in the floor pan and the rear valance where it joins to the rear panel. Other than that it's tip top.
As Wardy was saying about his mpi 'Lulu', I saw the pictures of him rebuilding it, I couldn't believe how bad it had got in such a short space of time.
I was half thinking about getting a '96 Japanese imported Cooper 35 spi as a run around, and though the body is immaculate, I am thinking twice about getting it after reading this!!
Might stick with my boring Seat!

[Sprocket]

I see my point went un noticed

I will interject some more.

The late spi Cooper and MPi varients could be considered different. Most of these cars were bought by people who wanted something different and used it day to day to travel to work, as you would any normal car, rather than being driven a couple of miles to the shops and back maybe twice a week.

Salt is the biggest enemy, and there is hunderds of thousands of tons of the stuff lieing at the side of the roads. More so than 20 years ago!

Again, as the years have passed by, tighter regulations on the use of certain chemicals used for many processes involved in manyaspects of the construction of a car, have changed the protection levels, while better design bodies from the outset will lenghten their life on its own without the need for extra protection processes.

It still does not get away from the fact that no car was ever designed to last much longer than 10 years, and all Minis now are pretty much at least 10 years old. Some will fair better, some worse, but then, that can be said for any car.

Its easy to blame Austin Rover, but its hardly the complete picture

[Boycie]

So good he said it twice!

Honestly Sprocket, surely you must have either worked for A-R and tell people the same thing every day, or you've just splashed out many thousands on a late Mini and are trying to convince yourself you made the right choice?

The last of the line cars were doomed from very early on- I distinctly remember seeing a three-year old Cooper with a rotten 'A' panel ten or so years back- I don't believe that is down to modern paints and sealers which now lack the evil substances that gave our poor fathers/ grandfathers serious industrial health problems later in life- it's a lack of any suitable protection fullstop.

I totally agree that the Mini's moncoque is riddled with water traps, moisture-holding seams etc, but in the case of this 'A' panel, it's a single-skinned area that is easily protected with the minimum of materials. Yes everyone points blame at Rover which I think is generally unfair as I'm a fan (my modern is a late MG) but the evidence sadly speaks for itself.

[bluedragon]

Sadly, I too have to agree that the late model Minis are singularly susceptible to corrosion. Consider that they are at most 15 years old. Many of these showed appalling amounts of decay within 5 years of completion. I have an older Mini that is left outdoors, vs. the MPI that is garaged, and it has far less corrosion despite (or perhaps because) being painted aftermarket.

It's not just corrosion where there are seams or the paint coat has been penetrated. I have several scabs of rust forming where the original external surface of the paint is intact. The corrosion is coming from the backside. And I live in a climate where no salt is used. Similarly, my scuttle was rusted out to the extent water was shorting out my stereo unit. It's amazing that the triple-layer panel could decay so fast - it was crumbling to dust and I could easily flake off large chunks with my pinky finger.

There is reason to believe it was due to inconsistent worksmanship, since, on the other hand, the most common (or 2nd most common) area of corrosion for a late model Mini (the headlamp surrounds) didn't corrode at all, even with paint chipping, which exposed primer. That gave me a false sense of security, perhaps I could have addressed the windscreen surround in time to save it instead of having to cut out metal and reweld.

[Nu2mini]

I'm not sure where all this is getting us really. I firmly support Sprockets view on this matter.

Note where this thread started

So my 10 year old MPi has just failed its MOT with loads of major structural rust on the rear subframe and one sill

It's rotting from the bottom up. There's no comment about the soundness of 'A' Panels or scuttles. In fact the biggest problem is the rear subframe !!. Does the photographic evidence of the state of a 96 MX5 v 91 Japanese import not prove anything to us. This is a completely different car not built by AR, and using Japanese production techniques. The 96 UK car is rotting from the bottom up. Why? because it's run on UK roads all it's life

Lets consider other cars not built by AR. How many Ford Cortinas do you see on the road these days. The Cortina was in production for 20 years commencing in 1962. Unlike the mini it actually had 5 different variants. So in effect was 5 different cars, each variant having the benefit of learning from any problems of it's predecessor. Total production of these was approx 4.5 million cars. In the late 70's early 80's I was a Ford nut and owned several. Without exception they were all full of chicken wire and filler. In every case the cars I owned finally succumed to the ravages of rust. I never lost one through major mechanical failure. So was AR any different to Ford.

The reality is we have to work with what we've got. With the right car and by taking some sensible precautions there's no reason why we shouldn't continue to enjoy our Mini's for a good while yet. Not all will last and many will have had a harder life compared to others. We know what the problems are and no amount of wishing things were different is going to change that.

(It's wet today so Mini confined to garage . Forecast is for a fine tomorrow so I'll be having a Mini adventure )

Oh as an addendum. Here's a radical solution

Mini bodyshell Guaranteed not to ROT !!!

It just don't seem right though !!!

Edited by Nu2mini, 06 October 2010 - 11:04 AM.