79 replies to this topic

[Cooperman]

This shows how Minis are not fire-resistant at all.
To be practical for a moment, if I may, there will always be a risk when a large battery shares a confined space with a petrol tank. To add to that there are often large shelf-mounted audio speakers which offer no flame resistance at all. Also the gap around the rear seat back sides just opens into the boot area. For competition the boot must be totally sealed off from the interior and the battery covered.
I plate the back shelf with a flat continuous sheet of aluminium, sealed around the edges and pop-rivetted in place. Any speakers can go in their own boxes on top of the shelf or underf the rear seat. The gap around the seat back panel I seal off with fire-resistant sealer. I never have the fuel pump(s) in the boot and make sure the fuel line is protected from chafing where it passes through the panel and the battery lead is set into a piece of thick hose with RTV sealant. The battery I cover properly.
I don't know what more one can realistically do if the battery is to be located in its original position.

thats just doing extra percauctionary work which ordinarily shouldnt be needed! and completly daft to recomend EVERYONE must do it, factory fitted some minis came with speakers in the shelf, i know one of mine did and iv certainly no intension of blocking up some holes in the parcle shelf which, under normal conditions shouldnt cause a problem. Where do you stop for doing preventative measures? fit a bag tank so it cant explode? gel batterys mounted under the engine bay away from the tank also? its just doing work for the sake of it when problems can be solved when things are carried out as they should be

Your choice entirely, of course. You have now seen what can happen, and that was without any sort of rear-end accident. Fire-proofing in 1950's cars was never good and the Mini is a 50's car. It would never be allowed on a new car now. Those who are safety concious may want to take these precautions as it won't alter the value or performance of the car, but will increase their safety. Others may decide not to. It's entirely up to them. I bet I know what the OP of this thread will do when he gets his insurance money and another Mini.

[minimaff]

Just read your story, glad you are ok, the main thing is that you came out of the car in one piece. You can always get an other car.

That is my worst fear of owning a mini with no back doors......

Hope you recover from this soon

[1995 MK2 IOM]

This shows how Minis are not fire-resistant at all.
To be practical for a moment, if I may, there will always be a risk when a large battery shares a confined space with a petrol tank. To add to that there are often large shelf-mounted audio speakers which offer no flame resistance at all. Also the gap around the rear seat back sides just opens into the boot area. For competition the boot must be totally sealed off from the interior and the battery covered.
I plate the back shelf with a flat continuous sheet of aluminium, sealed around the edges and pop-rivetted in place. Any speakers can go in their own boxes on top of the shelf or underf the rear seat. The gap around the seat back panel I seal off with fire-resistant sealer. I never have the fuel pump(s) in the boot and make sure the fuel line is protected from chafing where it passes through the panel and the battery lead is set into a piece of thick hose with RTV sealant. The battery I cover properly.
I don't know what more one can realistically do if the battery is to be located in its original position.

thats just doing extra percauctionary work which ordinarily shouldnt be needed! and completly daft to recomend EVERYONE must do it, factory fitted some minis came with speakers in the shelf, i know one of mine did and iv certainly no intension of blocking up some holes in the parcle shelf which, under normal conditions shouldnt cause a problem. Where do you stop for doing preventative measures? fit a bag tank so it cant explode? gel batterys mounted under the engine bay away from the tank also? its just doing work for the sake of it when problems can be solved when things are carried out as they should be

I have to agree with you here... I reckon most wont... but I wont be doing this... my battery has the original cover on it, (it is only a 1995) but I cant justify spending the money on trying to make something "fireproof" with a piece of metal... to be honest... if your petrol tank does go up in flames because of a problem with the battery causing sparks... your pretty much bollxed anyway! you open the boot to put the fire out... you've just given it a woosh of oxygen... you leave it to burn out? I really dont see how it would just go out without taking the rest of the car with it? from what I understand from what the lad said, it came from the rear seats... not the partial shelf... the heat of a fire in your boot will get through what ever you put there... well what ever you put there that will fit there!

its just a horrible thing that has happened, I dont think it could really have been dramatically helped or avoided in a mini.... just my opinion...

J

[Cooperman]

This shows how Minis are not fire-resistant at all.
To be practical for a moment, if I may, there will always be a risk when a large battery shares a confined space with a petrol tank. To add to that there are often large shelf-mounted audio speakers which offer no flame resistance at all. Also the gap around the rear seat back sides just opens into the boot area. For competition the boot must be totally sealed off from the interior and the battery covered.
I plate the back shelf with a flat continuous sheet of aluminium, sealed around the edges and pop-rivetted in place. Any speakers can go in their own boxes on top of the shelf or underf the rear seat. The gap around the seat back panel I seal off with fire-resistant sealer. I never have the fuel pump(s) in the boot and make sure the fuel line is protected from chafing where it passes through the panel and the battery lead is set into a piece of thick hose with RTV sealant. The battery I cover properly.
I don't know what more one can realistically do if the battery is to be located in its original position.

thats just doing extra percauctionary work which ordinarily shouldnt be needed! and completly daft to recomend EVERYONE must do it, factory fitted some minis came with speakers in the shelf, i know one of mine did and iv certainly no intension of blocking up some holes in the parcle shelf which, under normal conditions shouldnt cause a problem. Where do you stop for doing preventative measures? fit a bag tank so it cant explode? gel batterys mounted under the engine bay away from the tank also? its just doing work for the sake of it when problems can be solved when things are carried out as they should be

I have to agree with you here... I reckon most wont... but I wont be doing this... my battery has the original cover on it, (it is only a 1995) but I cant justify spending the money on trying to make something "fireproof" with a piece of metal... to be honest... if your petrol tank does go up in flames because of a problem with the battery causing sparks... your pretty much bollxed anyway! you open the boot to put the fire out... you've just given it a woosh of oxygen... you leave it to burn out? I really dont see how it would just go out without taking the rest of the car with it? from what I understand from what the lad said, it came from the rear seats... not the partial shelf... the heat of a fire in your boot will get through what ever you put there... well what ever you put there that will fit there!

its just a horrible thing that has happened, I dont think it could really have been dramatically helped or avoided in a mini.... just my opinion...

J

Of course you can't ever always prevent a fire from starting. The idea of proofing the boot area as much as possible is simply to 'buy time' in order to stop and evacuate the vehicle.
I guess that coming from an aerospace engineering background, safety 'cause & effect' comes with the territory. The OP was injured getting out as he had not sufficient time. I am guessing that he doesn't actually know the route the fire took to ingress into the passenger area, but for sure it did, and very quickly too.
For competition, isolating the boot as described is mandatory, but then the risks are higher.
After seeing these awful photos my grandson, Cooperkid, immediately took out the rear shelf speakers and plated over the holes with 1.5 mm thick aluminium alloy sheet sealed with bath sealer. We will remove the bits of foam as fitted by the factory and put fibreglass into the rear seat panel gaps next week.
It's a personal choice, like buying the best (i.e. safest) tyres, or changing the brake fluid regularly. It just all adds to overall safety. But to repeat, it's a personal choice for us all. How valuable are we to ourselves? You will only do these mods if you feel you want to have a better safety margin. I had a very good friend who was burned to death in a light aircraft crash many years ago, and another aquaintance was burned to death on a rally in 1970, so maybe I'm more sensitive to fire precautions than most. It sounds as though the OP was not only unfortunate to lose his car, but is lucky to still be here with us and my feelings do really go out to him.

Edited by Cooperman, 27 October 2010 - 08:10 PM.

[Nic]

This shows how Minis are not fire-resistant at all.
To be practical for a moment, if I may, there will always be a risk when a large battery shares a confined space with a petrol tank. To add to that there are often large shelf-mounted audio speakers which offer no flame resistance at all. Also the gap around the rear seat back sides just opens into the boot area. For competition the boot must be totally sealed off from the interior and the battery covered.
I plate the back shelf with a flat continuous sheet of aluminium, sealed around the edges and pop-rivetted in place. Any speakers can go in their own boxes on top of the shelf or underf the rear seat. The gap around the seat back panel I seal off with fire-resistant sealer. I never have the fuel pump(s) in the boot and make sure the fuel line is protected from chafing where it passes through the panel and the battery lead is set into a piece of thick hose with RTV sealant. The battery I cover properly.
I don't know what more one can realistically do if the battery is to be located in its original position.

I just took my laptop with this on it out to the workshop to show my grandson (Cooperkid) who is working on his '97 MPI ready for when he is 17 next year. He has now stopped what he was doing and is removing the large rear shelf speakers and will cut aluminium plates and rivet them in to close off the shelf this evening. He and I will then seal up the seat panel to boot gap as well.
I think, having seen this, a lot of us will be doing the same and very soon as well. It does make sense, doesn't it.
This is a very sobering story. It also shows how vulnerable a Mini is in a rear-end shunt and especially so for a Mini with a beam rear axle and no rear sub-frame.

Im pretty sure that with the intense heat that a petrol fire would cause that aluminium sheet would just melt away, so seems to be pretty pointless mod. it has a very low melting point compared with steel, so i have to agree with mini93. best thing would be keep everything in good condition with regular checks and make sure the battery is covered and gromets are present in the panels.

[Cooperman]

This shows how Minis are not fire-resistant at all.
To be practical for a moment, if I may, there will always be a risk when a large battery shares a confined space with a petrol tank. To add to that there are often large shelf-mounted audio speakers which offer no flame resistance at all. Also the gap around the rear seat back sides just opens into the boot area. For competition the boot must be totally sealed off from the interior and the battery covered.
I plate the back shelf with a flat continuous sheet of aluminium, sealed around the edges and pop-rivetted in place. Any speakers can go in their own boxes on top of the shelf or underf the rear seat. The gap around the seat back panel I seal off with fire-resistant sealer. I never have the fuel pump(s) in the boot and make sure the fuel line is protected from chafing where it passes through the panel and the battery lead is set into a piece of thick hose with RTV sealant. The battery I cover properly.
I don't know what more one can realistically do if the battery is to be located in its original position.

thats just doing extra percauctionary work which ordinarily shouldnt be needed! and completly daft to recomend EVERYONE must do it, factory fitted some minis came with speakers in the shelf, i know one of mine did and iv certainly no intension of blocking up some holes in the parcle shelf which, under normal conditions shouldnt cause a problem. Where do you stop for doing preventative measures? fit a bag tank so it cant explode? gel batterys mounted under the engine bay away from the tank also? its just doing work for the sake of it when problems can be solved when things are carried out as they should be

PS to this. Where was I so DAFT as to RECOMMEND EVERYONE MUST (all your own words) do this. I just stated what I do in the hope that it might perhaps help others. You all make your own choices. If you want to make the car more fire resistant, then feel free to do it. If you don't want to, then don't. Simples

[mini93]

fair enough you didnt, but the 2nd post i got the feeling you were trying to persue the idea and hinting people should do it.
i bet infact alot of people wont infact ******* around with cutting aluminum sheeting etc etc contrary to what you said

edit, i cant say fanny?

Edited by mini93, 27 October 2010 - 08:22 PM.

[Cooperman]

fair enough you didnt, but the 2nd post i got the feeling you were trying to persue the idea and hinting people should do it.
i bet infact alot of people wont infact ******* around with cutting aluminum sheeting etc etc contrary to what you said

edit, i cant say *******?

Personally I think it's a really good thing to do, but each to their own on this.
Aluminium alloy sheet as a barrier will give you many more seconds - yes, not more minutes - to stop and evacuate the vehicle, which the OP here would have found very useful. People escape from on-fire aircraft don't they and they are made from aluminium alloy. It won't stop the car from burning out, of course it won't. The 'fannying' around with ally sheet took about 15 minutes this evening. 15 minutes which may, only may, give you an edge in a fire situation. You just make the judgement for yourself. My grandsons ride in my Coopers and I want an edge if I can have one.
Personally I don't care what others do or don't do, it's up the the individual.

[sazal]

Jeeeeeez guys, give the guy a break!

Hes only offering advice to everyone to try and make their Minis safer!

Edited by sazal, 28 October 2010 - 05:42 AM.

[Timty]

I think cooperman is just talking plane sense! my nine year old son travels in the back of my mini i tell you now that he wont be until i have fireproofed my boot area to a very high standard. He was only trying to advise people on a simple way of buying us a bit more time if heaven forbid this should happen to us! i am gratful for any safety advice.

[Teapot]

Very sorry to hear this and glad you're pretty much ok. Puts things into to perspective for me at least.

[LuckyThe1275]

I'm very sorry to see and hear this... I can't imagine how upsetting it would be to watch helplessly.

I will definitely be taking the advice here on the rubber grommet in the boot floor the battery live passes through... That's easy and really does make sense. The better tubing you do for the battery live, the lower risk of the fire even starting IMO.

Good luck with your next mini, i'm sure it will be exceptional.

Let us know what happens re. insurance claim?

Matt

[SomethingNew71]

Glad to see you are alright. It's always so funny how something like this that literally has no direct effect on the other posters can get everyone up in a tizzy. Guess that is the joys of forum posting...

[1995 MK2 IOM]

Glad to see you are alright. It's always so funny how something like this that literally has no direct effect on the other posters can get everyone up in a tizzy. Guess that is the joys of forum posting...

Its not the point that its not taken any direct effect... All i'm trying to say is that no matter what people try to do to secure their boot... I just don't see how it will help, the lad who has had the horrible event happen to him didn't see the fire until it was through his back seat area anyway... so you fireproof the back of your mini so the fire can burn for longer before it burns through the chairs? I just don't get it?

I have complete and utter sympathy for the lad who this has happened to and I cannot imagine how distraught he must be... but I don't think there was anything he could have done to stop the flames from taking his car...

The point is... we shouldn't be making our boot "fire proof"... we should be taking measures to prevent it from happening in the first place! which is more important! (and more difficult!)

J

[SomethingNew71]

Glad to see you are alright. It's always so funny how something like this that literally has no direct effect on the other posters can get everyone up in a tizzy. Guess that is the joys of forum posting...

Its not the point that its not taken any direct effect... All i'm trying to say is that no matter what people try to do to secure their boot... I just don't see how it will help, the lad who has had the horrible event happen to him didn't see the fire until it was through his back seat area anyway... so you fireproof the back of your mini so the fire can burn for longer before it burns through the chairs? I just don't get it?

I have complete and utter sympathy for the lad who this has happened to and I cannot imagine how distraught he must be... but I don't think there was anything he could have done to stop the flames from taking his car...

The point is... we shouldn't be making our boot "fire proof"... we should be taking measures to prevent it from happening in the first place! which is more important! (and more difficult!)

J

I completely agree. I mean most of these cars are built before safety standards were implemented. In addition the design changed very minimally on the new ones so they all have these issues. At the end of the day it's a risk when driving these cars naturally you should take care to prevent these things but it's a risk that comes with owning these cars. Just carry a fire extinguisher and hope for the best is my opinion.