23 replies to this topic

[MiniDonkey]

i'm going to kit my 66 mk1 but don't know which way to go. First i love R1 motors, i've been around them my whole life and would prefer to go with that....but...:
1) why do r1 kits cost so much more than a vtec? i was going to go with a pro-motive but i can't see why a vtec is half the cost...no way should the gear box add that much to it. MiniTec's vtec kits are half the price...i don't know much about them but that's a huge savings right off the bat.
2) i'm also leaning away from pro-mo now since they don't like to answer emails...but does anyone know what year r1's can be used??? the website says up to 03...i have a 07 and 09 motor that id rather use but don't know if they can be used with their kits and why not.
3) yes i know about zcars and love their stuff...just waaay out of $$$ for me
4) i'm in the us...most of the r1 guys i find are in the uk....anybody know of any good us r1 kit people?

[R1mini]

1) As you suspect it's the transfer box/reverse box that adds dramatically to the pro motive kit price, try approaching any engineering firm for a quote on a custom transfer box/reverse box and you'll understand the cost difference.

2)I believe this is a part time venture for the guys and they both have full time jobs. As the website says up to 03 engines are suitable. The 04 onwards R1's are not suitable as they are a different shape and bigger in certain critical dimensions, so no they can't be used.

Cheers
David

[E.L.M.O]

What will the car be used for? (weekend toy or daily/regularly driven?)

[MiniDonkey]

I'm guessing it's the gearbox as the rest of it us just tubing...just like the vtec kits.

And actually I'm a mech engineer, (but switched careers you could say and don't really work FT as one anymore), and full understand cost of design...but still I don't agree with what I'm seeing. Bottom line..promo kit = $5500...vtec $2400....where is the extra 3k in that kit???? That's all I'm asking and not trying to bash them or bad name anyone


...and the car is going to be used to just ******* around in. No autocross or anything...just a fun project and something to keep me busy for awhile

[R1mini]

I'm guessing it's the gearbox as the rest of it us just tubing...just like the vtec kits.

And actually I'm a mech engineer, (but switched careers you could say and don't really work FT as one anymore), and full understand cost of design...but still I don't agree with what I'm seeing. Bottom line..promo kit = $5500...vtec $2400....where is the extra 3k in that kit???? That's all I'm asking and not trying to bash them or bad name anyone


...and the car is going to be used to just ******* around in. No autocross or anything...just a fun project and something to keep me busy for awhile

You don't agree fine. Your a mechanical engineer go make your own and sell it, manufacturing anything is never that easy, you have identified an opportunity go for it

I approached Quaife for example and they quoted me £10,000 for a transfer box with no reverse

Cheers
David

[Chris C]

The Minitec kits look really nice in person, however I've had all sorts of issues with mine and it's not even on the road yet. I haven't tried to call them in a while but whenever I did it was somewhat difficult to get ahold of anybody. I had to move the front and rear motor mounts, as the ones supplied didn't line up. The shocks clipped the wheels and tires a half turn from full lock. You're also probably better off building a new intake manifold than trying to salvage the original one. I'm not sure how many of these issues are teething problems as I have one of the earlier "d" kits, but it certainly could be much worse.

That being said, the frame looks great and fit up well. The suspension arms are fully adjustable and utilize heim joints instead of bushings or needle bearings.

Where in the US are you located?

[dhende84]

Quaife kits for bike engined cars HERE

[dhende84]

Could always run the R1 engine sideways with a prop from the output sprocket into the Quaife reversing box and then into a Ford Sierra type diff or whatever the US equivalent is. So long as you don't mind rear wheel drive of course.

[MiniDonkey]

Could always run the R1 engine sideways with a prop from the output sprocket into the Quaife reversing box and then into a Ford Sierra type diff or whatever the US equivalent is. So long as you don't mind rear wheel drive of course.

Actually I'd rather have rwd. I looked at the busa rwd zcar kit but I wasn't too crazy about hacking the asss out of the back of the car and also the price. I haven't looked into any different methods to a rwd install...fwd just seems like it's way easier. There was another company that had a pretty nice fwd kit but didnt use a chain which I liked...it was a bit more than the pro-mo but seemed worth it for what you got.
I just started researching the whole conversion thing...I have some newer r1 motors that I'd like to use and I don't need reverse...so since no one makes a kit for newer motors or a kit that is < million dollars then maybe I'll make my own if I go with a bike motor. Vtec's don't do anything for me but I have to really consider one if it's going to be a 1/3 of the cost...sounds like more research.
Thanks for the help tho...any ideas appreciated

[Alan Carruthers]

All I would add, having been through a similar thought process when looking at mine, is that as you note there seems to be quite a lot of negative comment surrounding the vtec kits whereas I haven't heard anyone say a bad word about the quality of the promotive set up. 

Overall what swung it for me was the sequential (ish) shift, weight, fact that it fits without extending the front and the anticipated experience of 14000rpm vs 9000, although I'm sure there's a valid argument for both engines.

I know I'm talking about rather a different question but I justified the additional cost by knowing that the pro mo option was my preferred choice as it seemed to be less of a compromise for me.

Must say I found the pro mo lads pretty good, they're on here too I think so maybe message through the site?

Cheers, good luck.

Al

[dhende84]

Having driven a bike engined car (although not a mini) it is a hoot! Ok, so maybe you have to rev it a bit, but then the scream of the motor at 14000 rpm is pretty awesome!

Personally I'd find it more rewarding doing my own kit, though off the shelf ones tend to be fairly well proven.
If you can get the engine down low enough to run a prop down the exhaust tunnel, then it only needs a bit of structural work in the boot to house the diff. Also with the engine side ways on, there should be loads of room for a turbo

[Kam]

Vtec's don't do anything for me but I have to really consider one if it's going to be a 1/3 of the cost...sounds like more research

What aint it doing for you? Have you even driven or been in a VTEC mini with either front/rear or even a R1 mini with a front/rear for that matter?

I've been in both which were both front wheel driven and its like night and day, no way you can compare

I initially was heading for either the Pro-mo or MinieXvo kit FWD kit but decided on vtec as I wasn't gonna strip the car out and got worried about a bike engine pulling a cars weight, all depends on what you want but you can't dismiss and moan about the costs?

If you can do a cheaper kit then go for it?

[Kam]

Vtec's don't do anything for me but I have to really consider one if it's going to be a 1/3 of the cost

so since no one makes a kit for newer motors or a kit that is < million dollars then maybe I'll make my own if I go with a bike motor

Go for it? There is people here that WILL buy your kit, so whats stopping you? costs?

I aint knocking you but to me it sounds like you would rather moan about the costs of whats available (that people are spending there hard earned on) than to make your own which obviously you can do as per your post

Like I said, go for it, I might even be interested if its a good price

[minidream94]

theres always the drive boxes that the autograss boys use.

http://www.drdracing...k/Drive_Box.php

qualiffes (spelling?) box is like 1.7k yet that company that i just linked, does a twin motorcycle engine drive box ford 1.2k :S so in that instance, you could run twin hayabusa's in the back or in your case the r1

[R1mini]

theres always the drive boxes that the autograss boys use.

http://www.drdracing...k/Drive_Box.php

qualiffes (spelling?) box is like 1.7k yet that company that i just linked, does a twin motorcycle engine drive box ford 1.2k :S so in that instance, you could run twin hayabusa's in the back or in your case the r1

You could but you don't get a diff with it, they are working on one though

Cheers
David