Cooper became a brand name in the 60s long before brand naming become dominant. In 1959 and 1960 Coopers won the Formula One World Championship and Cooper was the biggest name in the motor world. John Cooper was a friend of Alec Issigonis and had already had a tuned version of the A-series engine in his Formula Junior cars. It was he who persuaded BMC to put a similar engine in the Mini. It was logical to use the Cooper name to enhance the image of a sporty Mini. The engines were developed by Eddie Maher of BMC with input from Daniel Richmond at Downton. In reality the Cooper input was limited to the concept and the name and to running a Mini racing team.
It was not until the 90s that John Cooper started developing tuning kits for the Mini, first in upgrades for the 998 engine, which was the only engine available in the Mini in the 80s. John Cooper then persuaded Rover to fit a 1275 engine and was involved in the development of the RSP. He went on to make his own ‘S Works’ conversions of the engines.
It could be argued that the most genuine Coopers are the 90s works conversions.
The 90s Coopers definitely confirmed the iconic status of the Mini.
To dismiss the 90s Cooper is to denigrate John Cooper’s passion for the Mini
What Makes A Cooper A Cooper?
Started by
giner88
, Feb 28 2012 10:33 PM
58 replies to this topic
#17
Black.Ghost
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:43 AM
I have an early 90s Cooper and I love it. I want to increase the power a bit, and want to give it the Cooper Si spec. Does it then become an Si? I don't know.
Personally, in order to be a Cooper and Cooper S, it should leave the factory as one.
Personally, in order to be a Cooper and Cooper S, it should leave the factory as one.
#18
Philly1983
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:15 AM
The back windows open on a Cooper 
#19
mini-luke
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:16 AM
And white mirrors, don't forget them.
#20
Guess-Works.com
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:41 AM
Not going to get too involved in what's a cooper and what is not, other than the piece of paper which the DVLA gives you is what the car is, whether or not the car is a log book special is then an ongoing debate.
In terms of what differentiates an SPi Cooper and an SPi Sprite.... think of it in terms of what differentiates an earlier City and a Mayfair, the Sprite is equivalent to the City ( base model ) and the Cooper the Mayfair ( or Luxury model ). Mechanically they are almost identical, with the only discernible difference being the final drive, Sprite 3.1, Cooper 3.2 and the ECU.
In terms of what differentiates an SPi Cooper and an SPi Sprite.... think of it in terms of what differentiates an earlier City and a Mayfair, the Sprite is equivalent to the City ( base model ) and the Cooper the Mayfair ( or Luxury model ). Mechanically they are almost identical, with the only discernible difference being the final drive, Sprite 3.1, Cooper 3.2 and the ECU.
#21
giner88
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:27 PM
I have an early 90s Cooper and I love it. I want to increase the power a bit, and want to give it the Cooper Si spec. Does it then become an Si? I don't know.
Personally, in order to be a Cooper and Cooper S, it should leave the factory as one.
so your saying the first Coopers wern't real Coopers? because i am 99% sure they didnt build them on the production lines at first. John Cooper got hold of stock minis and Moded them up to become Coopers, i think? can someone tell me if im wrong? lol
Edited by giner88, 29 February 2012 - 12:31 PM.
#22
Black.Ghost
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 01:41 PM
Then no
I have an early 90s Cooper and I love it. I want to increase the power a bit, and want to give it the Cooper Si spec. Does it then become an Si? I don't know.
Personally, in order to be a Cooper and Cooper S, it should leave the factory as one.
so your saying the first Coopers wern't real Coopers? because i am 99% sure they didnt build them on the production lines at first. John Cooper got hold of stock minis and Moded them up to become Coopers, i think? can someone tell me if im wrong? lol
Ok I'll change it to coming off the production line or being sent off for Cooperisation or 'S'ing/works package. I know most of the Cooper S models of the 90s were done after they come off the production line.
Basically, if it was sold to the first owner as a Cooper/S/S Works then that is what it is. If someone has taken a 80s City, replaced everything with Cooper running gear & styling, to me that is a modified City not a Cooper. The whole issue of Cooper/Cooper S back in the 60s is a very murky one.
Obviously an actual Cooper/S will hold more value than one built to the same spec.
But it is a very contentious subject.
#23
Frisco
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:00 PM
Its shouldn't be contentious though. If it wasn't originally speced (be that at the factory or before the first owner got it) as a cooper/S or whatever then all it will ever be is a replica. Would that stop me from buying a replica? No but it would effect the price, it will never be worth the same money IMO
#24
jaydee
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:19 PM
A 1992 Sprite will have the same cyl head as a 1992 Cooper..
#25
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 03:10 PM
Cams different as well, the sprite been very tame.
Don't think they are...not in the SPi, the carbed cooper did have a different cam, being basically an MG Metro engine.
#26
minimissionary
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:00 PM
Isn't the Sprite running lower compression too? I seem to remember reading that this was done intentionally, so people didn't just buy the Sprite instead of the Cooper. Could be talking out of my a*** as usual though 
#27
Mini_Magic
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:20 PM
The 60s coopers are the true brits,in 1990 they brought them back but by then Minis were only a fashion statment,the Mini as an icon finished in the 80s.
Yes because the Mini was never a fashion icon in the 60s!
Not sure where all these rumours about later Coopers having more power are coming from, they are near enough identical to the engines used in Sprites.
Edited by Mini_Magic, 29 February 2012 - 04:20 PM.
#28
Black.Ghost
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:33 PM
To be fair, everything I've ever read indicates a difference in power. If there was no difference between the two, people wouldnt have spent more on the Cooper.
#29
Cooperman
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:42 PM
I was told by a person who worked at Rover, Longbridge in the Procurement Dept at that time that the company was so poor at paying its bills on time that suppliers sometimes wouldn't deliver parts as ordered. To keep the production lines going cars were fitted with whatever was in stock. So a 1990 Cooper could have had any A-series cam and that, according to my contact, accounts for differing power figures for theoretically identical cars.
I have no confirmation of this, but when I did business with Austin-Rover in the mid-80's they took an average of 180 days to pay their bills - yes, 6 months. In the end I refused to do any more business with them as Ford and GM would pay in 30 to 45 days.
I have no confirmation of this, but when I did business with Austin-Rover in the mid-80's they took an average of 180 days to pay their bills - yes, 6 months. In the end I refused to do any more business with them as Ford and GM would pay in 30 to 45 days.
#30
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:02 PM
To be fair, everything I've ever read indicates a difference in power. If there was no difference between the two, people wouldnt have spent more on the Cooper.
you say this but people pay more for LEs just because they have diffirent decals and trim lol
Edited by giner88, 29 February 2012 - 06:02 PM.
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