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Politics Debate (Should Be Fun)


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#16 lapider

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:48 AM

the problem with fuel tax is that it fluctuates with the availability of the fuel so if a certain oil field unexpectedly dries up and more pressure is put on the others then the fuel tax is whacked up to reduce unnecessary fuel use.

at the moment is creeping up due to conflict in the middle east and the difficulty transporting oil through, i imagine in the future if they start drilling in the falklands providing the argies aren't going to start a war then the fuel tax should go down, weather it will is another matter.

if we fix the fuel tax and the the fuel import starts to become sparse yet people carry on spending as if all is alright soon we could have a major fuel crisis on our hands which would not help the economy in way.

i should be a politician me. :lol:

#17 chrisandsarah

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:49 AM

The underlying theme really is - earn more money, and it won't be so much of an issue for you.

#18 bugs42

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 03:30 AM

Im sorry guys, but we all know that the Monster Raving Loony party should be in power :)

#19 Bungle

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 08:22 AM

i think we should stop being the police of the world, we aren't a rich country with a empire anymore .That money would be better off spent at home

we also need a sense able green policy,

electric cars aren't 0 emissions

buying new cars isn't green

sticking solar panels on your roof isn't carbon free

#20 giner88

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 08:41 AM

i hate to do this but so what times are hard, they were in the early 1930s and 't*ts' like some of you guys in another country started voting for a certain party and a certain person. Because he promised to get rid of immigrants and similar policies to the BNP. We all know how that ended. Thank god that most britains have a Brain Cell and dont vote for them Other wise we would be in a World of ****. over 60million people died when Idiots voted for that certain 'National Party'.

#21 Bungle

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 08:47 AM

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Godwin's_law

#22 giner88

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 08:54 AM

didnt mention the name LOL and to be fair its a pretty direct link, i mean they are self declared fascists and one of the leaders called mein kampf 'his bible'

#23 stitch-86

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 08:56 AM

I think the getting out of Europe would be the best bet to save the country money. We can then create our own policies ie: Human Rights Act, which closes the loopholes that the EU's one has where victims are treated as equally if not sometimes worse due to the mental aspect than the criminals. A great amendment would be anyone who steals or damages a mini should be castrated!

But with with all the debt floating around Europe and the UK showing very little sign of independance from Europe on this matter means that when (not if, but when...) Europe does go T*ts up because of Spain, Italy and Greece (who will leave the Germans in the sh*t as well)

Either way something needs to be done, the BNP aren't the way forward in my opinion (and I dont think their leaders would have a clue what they were doing even if they did get to power, and also the fact my local BNP politician (who was running 3/4 years ago anyways) hit a woman at a Primary school when she was collecting or dropping off her child and is renound for being pissed and fighting, doesnt really put them in my good books)

Need a radical party without the facist/racist/knob head policies and background.

Although I did see a good advert on the train:

Most Germans own a second home................. They call it Greece

#24 MiniLuke

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 09:12 AM

I really think this thread shows that most people don't understand the workings of the macro economics between countries. I think I have some understanding but wouldn't profess to know about it entirely. I don't think anyone can make sweeping statements without some understanding. The OPs statements are very typical and as mentioned are usually the sort of comments that occur at the pub.

We as a county borrow money to pay for things much like anyone else does (generally from other countries, central banks and international investors BUT only from those who think they will get their money back!). This, in my opinion is the point. If the action taken had not been taken, even though many are hurting, our international credit rating would be shot to pieces, a bit like Greece and Ireland. The upshot would be very high interest rates such as Labour subjected the country to in the seventies. IF THIS HAD HAPPENED EVERYONE WOULD BE SUFFERING HUGELY MORE THAN THEY ARE NOW. And the journey back to some sort of posterity would take decades longer.

The options when the government changed a year or so ago were to continue to do so more and more or take action to reduced the overspending. The current government never said they would reduce the debt any time soon, but to reduce the year on year deficit (or the extra borrowing added to the debt pile each year).

To suggest the BNP could run the country's economy is a joke and would cause suffering to millions through bad management let alone their misguided opinions (my opinion anyway).

One final point. It's easy to point and say look the government are borrowing more than ever, BUT consider for a moment where we would be if Labour had continued to overspend they way the we're. The journey back would be even harder with pay rises chasing spiralling interest rates. Then would come real osterity measures.


#25 mini-luke

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 09:19 AM

For a good example of what would happen if we decided we no-longer will pay the banks back, take a look at Greece. Nice place to live, isn't it?

#26 MaxAndPaddy

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 09:19 AM

My brain cant cope with this...its far too early

So with one swoop I say get rid of the lot of them!

I'm with Billy Connolly on this one ...''Anyone that wants to be in power should be immediately excluded'' >_<

Let Richard Branson run the country

Sorted :proud:

#27 Black.Ghost

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 09:56 AM

Firstly, if you are seriously considering voting for the BNP, I would really urge you to not do that. The only reason they have black/ethnic members is that they were forced to by law a number of months ago, as it was ruled that allowing only white members was illegal. Why on this earth would you want to be a member of a party like that if you were not white? Beyond me. They would ruin the country.

My next point is that if there was an easy fix to all of our problems, even the idiots politicians in power would be able to do it. There simply isn't a quick fix, and there never will be as what most people perceive to be the problems in this country have built up over a number of years, this has not happened over night.

The next thing you have to remember is that any government will never make everyone happy, and therefore it has to act in the interests of the majority.

As for the debt that we are in, this has been caused over a number of years by borrowing huge amounts of money to keep pubic services going. In addition to this, our gold reserves were sold off when gold was at a low price - what a genius idea that was. IT is accepted that the pension pot is such that we pay more into it than is paid out each year - however the population is getting older and people are living longer so any excess that may have been built up will not last particularly long.

All those public services that everyone takes for granted - the NHS, schooling, Police, Fire service, MOD, prison service etc all cost a lot of money to keep running. If the money simply isn't coming in, you can't keep throwing huge amounts of money at them. In my opinion, the amount of money is not the issue - it is the way it is spent. There is a lot of inefficiency in the public sector.

The people that make the decisions and do the costings look for short term savings as this is good news in the press - however in the long run it is a bad idea as it will invariably cost much more. With all the public sector cuts, the people doing the planning have no real idea of how any of these services run and hence make number decisions only.

The country as a whole has moved away from a manufacturing industry in the 80s to a financial and services based economy in the current day, and as a result we have very little to export. There are many tax loops that exist as well - Barclays have recently been exposed for saving themselves millions, and Vodafone have had a tax bill of approximately £80 million just wiped out (IIRC). While I accept that people like football players should pay the full amount of tax that they owe and not worm out of it, I don't think they should face particular targeting. They have a skill, they make money from it. Whether you think they are overpaid is not is a different discussion, but they shouldn't have to pay more than their fair share to society. No one should.

Large parts of the world are in a recession as well, this is natural economics. No one moaned about anything when the money was flowing etc. You have to take the tough times with the bad. I suspect that the majority of people will not earn from this. In the last few years when the money was flowing, people were spend spend spend and not worrying about anything. Now the money has dried up, everyone is moaning. I bet when the economy starts going up, everyone will spend spend spend and not worry until the economy goes down again. This is quite a harsh dip but still not close to what history has seen in the past.

As for the Hitler comments, it was a very different situation back then. Germany was still reeling from losing the first world war, they were paying millions of pounds in reparations. One of the worst economic crises ever hit the country and things were so bad that people were getting paid daily and hyper inflation was ridiculous. It got so bad that the currency had to be removed and a new one introduced. Hitler was a very good public speaker, and that was what allowed him his success at the time. He put forward ideas of who was to blame (the Jews according to him), and backed it up by saying, look at who has all the money. It was true at the time, a lot of the richer people in society were Jewish. Once he actually got into power, we should not forget how much he turned the economy around, largely on good public feeling. Unemployment was drastically reduced, the major road network in the country was built, the army grew and grew. He then had great success in convincing the victors of WWI that reparations should stop. Under the original Treaty of Versailles, Germany should have been paying WW1 off until the 70s. By stopping the repayments, he got massive support. The British and the French didn't help with the policy of Appeasement, allowing Hitler pretty much to do as he wanted.

He used the SS to great effect in terms of controlling the population and those who weren't in support of the party were terrorised into it. On top of this, he has Joseph Goebbels who was a master in propaganda. Altogether, it led to a terrible situation and eventually war was declared.

The BNP would not have the same success. British politics, certainly for the next few years, is such that they could not possibly score enough votes to get in. Our political structure, while it may have faults, is fairly stable and the economic recession is not even comparable to what the Germans suffered in the 20s.

My last point is reference the migrant workers in this country. While there are many people who are currently out of work who would be happy for any job, I do think there are far too many people who think certain jobs are beneath them when they are not necessarily qualified to do anything more. If you look at America, people are not ashamed to be in the retail industry for example. In the UK, you are often lucky if you get a grunt from someone serving you. With people not wanting to take some jobs, and with a large number of Eastern Europeans that will do the job, not argue and just get on with it, who would you employ? This is a problem of our own making as a society, made worse by the free trade laws of Europe and the generally easy life that can be had in Britain.

Overall, I think the only real way to sort everything out is some hard and unpopular decisions. Labour and the Tories are not prepared to make such decisions, as whatever ******* they come out with, all they want is to be in power. Neither is willing to risk their party's future and make the tough decision.

And that is my own lecture over.

#28 Bungle

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 09:58 AM

For a good example of what would happen if we decided we no-longer will pay the banks back, take a look at Greece. Nice place to live, isn't it?


well the sun comes out far more often than here and you only have to work if you want to and not very hard at that

#29 Nikral

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:13 AM

Have read everyones point of view and can only say is " if you don't learn from the past what future do we have"

#30 brad-the-bear

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:49 AM

the problem with fuel tax is that it fluctuates with the availability of the fuel so if a certain oil field unexpectedly dries up and more pressure is put on the others then the fuel tax is whacked up to reduce unnecessary fuel use.

at the moment is creeping up due to conflict in the middle east and the difficulty transporting oil through, i imagine in the future if they start drilling in the falklands providing the argies aren't going to start a war then the fuel tax should go down, weather it will is another matter.

if we fix the fuel tax and the the fuel import starts to become sparse yet people carry on spending as if all is alright soon we could have a major fuel crisis on our hands which would not help the economy in way.

i should be a politician me. :lol:


it costs them just over 45p for a litre of fuel i mean common! THATS NEARLY A £1 ON EACH LITRE!!!




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